Fish are dying, I'm clueless

[paradigmcubed]

I originally had 1 dwarf Gourami, 1 Blue Gourami, 1 Paradise Fish, 2 Mollies, 1 Angel Fish, 2 Tetras, 1 Pictus Catfish and 3 Zebras. I don't know what is happening but, I have lost 2 Mollies, 1 Angel Fish, 1 Tetra and 1 Zebra(presumed eaten, was a baby) I really don't think this is normal to have lost 5 really 4 fish from a total of 12 fish. 1:3 ratio. I am bewildered because none of my fish expressed any weird sypmtoms. I did put two rocks in the fish tank, however I put them in chlorine and then boiled the. I really doubt I overfed them, tried to stick to the feed for 3 minutes rule. Any ideas?? I really would like to not lose any more fish, even 1 death is more than enough. On Saturday I will be going to take a water sample to the fish store and I'll post those results, I'm guessing that will be the key.........

[superstein61]

Two questions:

1. How old is your tank? Is it newly setup or been running for a while. If it is newly set-up, did it complete its cycle?

2. You say you soaked the rocks in Chlorine then boiled them. After doing this, did you rinse them very well in clean water with LOTS of dechlorinator? if not, the rocks could be leaching Chlorine - which would be toxic to the fish. Did they still smell like bleach when you put them in the tank?

[paradigmcubed]

My tank is fairly new. I bought it a couple of weeks ago and allowed it to cycle for one week. I washed the rocks in water. They didn't smell like bleach when I put them in.

[thom336]

i think that this may have been a mix of things. firstly, i believe you stocked too much too soon. normally allow at least 2 weeks for cycling, and after cycling stock slowly, so that your filters can adapt to the extra bioload more easily. i really dont see why you did soak your rocks in chlorine, i would have thought that boiling the rocks would have sufficed. there is an underlying problem here, as you dont just lose a third of your fish for no reason, and i would say it is because you did not cycle the tank for long enough, and then adding all those fish. i think you may be in for quite a shock when you get those water test results...

how big is your tank?

paradise fish do not do well in communities, and in essence do better in lower temperatures than most tropical fish.

tetras, angelfish and danios all like to shoal, and for angelfish this should be a group of at least 3, and the danios ansd tetras shoul dbe in groups of at least 5, preferrably more.

[jiggerpolebill]

thom's right. and you may need longer than 2 weeks. my 55 took about 6 weeks to fully cycle. you should read the thread posted at the very top of this forum. it has a few links to check out on cycling and such.

does zebra mean zebra danio? you may lose every fish but these. theyre pretty hardy. i cycled my tank with 7 and theyre still with me. read up and do alot of research before you buy anymore fish. most of all, be patient. your tank will be the way you want it soon enough, and the fish will prosper and give you alot of enjoyment. good luck.

[anonapersona]

Originally posted by paradigmcubed
My tank is fairly new. I bought it a couple of weeks ago and allowed it to cycle for one week. I washed the rocks in water. They didn't smell like bleach when I put them in.

Bought 2 weeks ago, then filled with water and allowed to sit for a week empty? What chemicals did you add to this, and when?

Then you added 12 fish, all at once?

You have no test kits?

Have you changed any water? How often do you feed? How much?

Have you cleaned the filter? How?

[superstein61]

Well, I agree with Thom that it is likely the tank did not fully cycle - and that is probably the main cause of your problems.

but i am a bit worried that you only rinsed the rocks in water after the chlorine. Rinsing in water may not solely get rid of the chlorine - hence why you would have had to rinse in water with lots of dechlorinator added.

To be on the safe side, I would remove the rocks, put them in a bucket of clean water and lotys of whatever dechlorinator you use.

Then focus on the bigger problem - which is getting your tank fully cycled as per Thom's post above

[paradigmcubed]

Bought 2 weeks ago, then filled with water and allowed to sit for a week empty? What chemicals did you add to this, and when?

-Let's see, I bought this 20 gallon fish tank at Petsupermarket and allowed it to sit for 1 1/3 weeks. When I put the water in I also put some of the stress coat or dechlorination. I added that immediately after putting the water in.

Then you added 12 fish, all at once?

-Then I added the fish over the next week, not all at once, but a one or two at a time.

Have you changed any water? How often do you feed? How much?

-Yes, I changed 15%-20% of the water after one week. I feed them as much flakes as they can eat in three minutes and I feed them once a day. I also give them 1-2 shrimp pellets daily.

You have no test kits?

-I called a LFS and they said I might as well bring the water in rather than test it myself.

i really dont see why you did soak your rocks in chlorine, i would have thought that boiling the rocks would have sufficed.

-I actually posted a question on this and was told by some members to boil it and bleach the rocks.

how big is your tank?

-My tank is a 20 gallon, I actually posted my fish list earlier and some members thought I was all right in the number of fish, however they said nothing more than a corie should be added. According to my LFS it was alright to add 1-2 over 7 days.

Hope this helps......

[OrionGirl]

Cycling refers to providing the tank with a means for processing the nitrogen components, usually with bacteria populations. This tank wasn't cycled--it was, at most, aged, then slowly stocked.

Don't believe everything you hear from the LFS. They have a financial motive--ie, Cycle is snake oil, but they make money off it. Then they make more money off you when you come back to replace the fish that died because of ammonia/nitrite toxicity.

Not your fault--there is a strong expectation that LFS employees know what they are talking about. And, many are in fact wonderful, competent aquarists. But, sometimes they aren't all that bright.

[paradigmcubed]

Is there anything I can do or should I just weather the storm? How long should it take for the tank to become fully operational again?

Hopefully the worst is over!

Thanks..........

[OrionGirl]

Without tests, it's hard to say (hence the reason we advise people to have their own--it's easier than always running to the LFS). The key is to get ammonia and nitrites down through water changes. I would start doing a 20% water change daily, and then adapting that based on the test results, to keep ammonia <1 and nitrites <.25. Adding a small amount of salt (NaCl) will reduce the toxicity of nitrites--1 tsp/gallon of regular table salt will work (and watch for the outcry against iodine--it's a myth that table salt will kill your fish).

[paradigmcubed]

Well the results from the fish store were mystifying. I have no traces of ammonia and my ph is perfect. I also brought multiple samples from different areas of the same tank. He ran four tests just to make sure after hearing of all my troubles. I guess that isn't the reason for my dying fish.

[anonapersona]

You also needed to test for nitrites. And nitrates. Better to get the test kits and do it yourself. A tank a few weeks old with dying fish is most likely high ammonia and nitrites. The ammonia cycle shouldn't have passed that quickly without using biospira or adding gravel or filter material from a cycled tank.


What is the tank temperature?

Were any of the fish damaged? Scrapes from careless netting can allow parasites to enter, bring bacterial infection along with them...were any of the fish from tanks where there were dead fish floating or even being eaten?

Do not add any fish until you know that nitrites have peaked and gone to zero.

[paradigmcubed]

The temperature is 79 degress farenheit and the fish weren't scraped or scarred. I guess I he didn't test for nitrates and nitrites, but its weird the ammonia test came out as zilch.

[thom336]

i admit that is a puzzle, but maybe the test kit it was tested with was faulty. or did you take the sample after a water change? this could hav reduced the amount of ammonia in the tank.

i would also introduce the fish even more slowly than you did, and start out with the hardy fish moving onto the more sensitive ones. i also agree with oriongirl that the LFS may often give you false information to make a quicker sale to you, but please may i stress that this does not apply to all LFS. you are better off getting your advice from those who will not have the intent of making a profit from it, such as on this forum. here no one stands to gain from giving false information unlike at the LFS.

[ChilDawg]

Okay, a few things that I see:

1.) Homicidal gouramies: Those that you mentioned are some of the nastiest fish around.

2.) Paradisefish: Ditto.

3.) 79 degrees Fahrenheit: I would check your numbers for dissolved Oxygen. That high of a temperature is not conducive to dissolving gasses in water without a large amount of dissipation. If you continue to have such temps, you need a lot of aeration to create more surface area and thus more gas exchange.

4.) You do not mention the use of dechlorinator. The chloramine in city water is the quickest way to kill a bunch of fish. Dechlorinator takes care of that aquarium scourge.

5.) Not cycling the tank. Others have already elaborated on this.

6.) Adding all those fish at once. Angels are not good for fishy cycling as they don't handle high nitrates/nitrites/ammonia well, and you easily outstripped your nonexistent biofilter right away. Mollies are also notorious for being poor cycling fish.

7.) The pictus. He will pick off sleeping fish at night, and the baby ZD was likely only the first of many.

HTH,

Matthew

[thom336]

Originally posted by paradigmcubed
When I put the water in I also put some of the stress coat or dechlorination. I added that immediately after putting the water in.

hate to do this matt, but the use of dechorinator was mentioned. i agree with you on everything thou.

[ChilDawg]

Yeppers, my bad. I did not see that in one of his replies. Matt needs to skim a little better!

[thom336]

lol, i often miss out large chunks of vital data when i read over things. and the stuff i do read, i forget by the time i come to write my reply. i have an awful memory!

[paradigmcubed]

I took the water samples before any water change and I took those water samples somewhere else today, they found no ammonia either.

**Thanks for all of your help, I don't know what I would have done without it.