Whats up with this gold ram?

[NJ Devils Fan]

Everything has been doing great in my tank. Today, I noticed that my gold ram has been almost gasping for air. Everyone else is great and my water is fine:

p.h. 7.0-7.2ish
ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-10
gh-between 6 and 7
kh-4

water temp-78

[Bantam]

is it possible that the oxygen level in the water is running a bit low?

[NJ Devils Fan]

I doubt it since everyone else is fine and there is tons of movement in the tank.

[Skittyfish]

NJ mine did the same before kicking the bucket. All 5 of them, one right after another. I even q-t'd them dosed them with penicillen and they still died. Water was perfect for them. I think I just got bad stock.

[somefinnfishy]

thats the same thing they do at the store before death.
We lost 90% of the last 5 shipments of goldens and blues just not that hardy dont like to be moved around.

[Faramir]

I'm sure there's some kind of "ram disease". This kind of die-off is so common in rams especially, but apistos and other Amazonian dwarf cichlids as well from time to time.

[somefinnfishy]

I'm a great fishkeeper and have lost 4 for every one that lives a year.I'm done killing rams:(
Try a set of bolivions have never lost one(except that open intake incident:eek:) and I have/had over a dosen.

[cdawson]

I as well lost my ram like this, he was doing fine until one day I woke up to find him sitting at the bottom gasping for air, the water conditions were perfect for him and he'd been in them for over 5 months.

[Faramir]

Originally posted by Faramir
I'm sure there's some kind of "ram disease". This kind of die-off is so common in rams especially, but apistos and other Amazonian dwarf cichlids as well from time to time.

Some research indicates I might be right here.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_FA035 is about gouramis, but mentions that:


Mortality rates of affected fish have varied from low (0.5--10%) to moderate (50%) with death usually occurring 24--48 hours after the onset of signs. Clinical signs associated with the presence of the iridovirus have included darkening of body coloration and lethargy. Sick gouramis often stop eating and the abdomen may be distended. (emphasis mine)

and that:


Iridoviruses have been associated with systemic disease and mortality rates of up to 80% in Ramirez dwarf cichlids ( Apistogramma ramirezi ) and angelfish ( Pterophyllum scalare ).

and goes on to say:


Iridoviruses associated with disease and mortality of tropical fish have been reported in Ramirez dwarf cichlids, angelfish, and, most recently, gouramis from the genus Trichogaster .

I also got this from:http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/blue%20rams.html


Purchase/Disease Clamped tails, heavy breathing, swollen gills and lack of color are the obvious signs of a weak Ram. Rams are well known for undergoing respiratory stress once introduced to a new tank or during shipment.

...

One of the reasons some Rams are 'difficult' to keep is due to the fact that, depending on where you live, a large number are bred in soft water in south-east Asia. This makes them prone to gill disease once placed in harder water (and possibly spurred during shipment); since gill disease goes unnoticed in its early stages, the fish look fairly healthy on arrival, but eventually keel over if treated too late. ... In addition to this, Rams have been know for carrying internal bacterial parasites.


High mortality in rams is certainly a known issue, even if the cause is obscure.

[OrionGirl]

Very interesting thread...Just wondering, does anyone else think that this might be the result of captive breeding programs that restrict the gene pool enough to make the stock particular susceptible to this virus? If so, then this might be something to watch for in similar families that are only now being bred in large numbers, such as some of the more readily available apistos. Just a guess...

[NJ Devils Fan]

I originally wanted bolivians, but the guy at my lfs said they would get too big and eat my neons.

[Ronne]

I wouldn't worry too much about that, most of the adult Bolivian Rams I've seen would have a tough time eating a neon. Mine seem to igore all other fish and concentrate on harmless bickering among themselves.

[Aderynglas]

Well this thread has cleared up my 7 month old mystery, out of my first pair of normal rams only the female survived (after they spawned 3 times in six weeks!) and before he died the male showed the same signs as those quoted here, lethargy, lack of feeding, gasping and finally obvious swelling to the gills on one side. Water was perfect for them and nothing seemed to help and it was months before I could bear to try another male. This time I waited until the Rams had been in the shop for 3 weeks (not the best lfs, and the tank was a "washing machine" the power filtration was so strong) and chose one of the survivors. This seems to have worked, the new male has grown well, seems strong and they are spawning as I write!!:) :) wish me luck!!