Liquid C02 product?

[aquatrippe]

Hey All,


Does anyone have any information or opinon about a product called "Carbonator" by Marc Weiss?

The product essentially claims to be a liquified c02 injection without any of the fuss..etc..

Truth is, I bought a bottle of this today and of course, AFTER the fact found much reason to be discouraged about any Marc Weiss product when an internet search sorta seem to reveal that many hobbyists think his products are of the "snake oil" variety.

So I am writing with the vain hope that I didn't throw 18 bucks away on crap....hoping someone can tell me there is something to this product.. the claims on the bottle are pretty out there.

I am half kidding here..as I would much rather know the truth.

The local fish store recommended it and being a plant neophyte, I bit.

I am willing to try it, but I don't want anything to harm my fish.. I am reluctant to trust this product.

I have a 12 gal eclipse aquarium with amazon swords that were doing fine with the plant food and black water extract..today I added some valisineria and some wisteria...

Do I even need to worry about c02 with these plants? I want to maximize their growth..but was reluctant to buy a small C02 gaget because the dealer warned me it might change the PH and my prize Cardinal tetras might suffer.

Any thoughts? The expertise in this forum is certainly impressive

[carpguy]

Welcome to AqC, home of the most skeptical snake-oil debunkers anywhere near water. :D

Well, its not pretty but you might want to take a look in here (http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/snake-oil.html). Tom Barr, aka Plantbrain, is one of about three folks on these boards who far and away outstrip the rest of us (by a long shot, not even close, etc). I'd take his word for it. (RTR and the WetMan are the other two: if I see any of them post to a thread, I'll generally go in and see what's going on (there are plenty of knowlegeable, even very knowledgeable, folks around -- those three stand out IMHO)).

There is a little bit (http://www.aquabotanic.com/carbon.html) of info here on a non-CO2 carbon dosing product by SeaChem called Excel. I think it and they are generally well-regarded.

CO2 is one of the big tangles for the planted crowd. I've been meaning to go get a pressurized setup for about a month now (tomorrow, I swear it). Many folks are happy with DIY. Look into all three angles (Excel, DIY, and pressurized -- try the search function), or start here for DIY (http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html).

Yes CO2 can and probably will effect your pH levels. There are ways of dealing with this and its not necessarily a bad thing. Knowing a little bit about your water will be important in this…

HTH

[RTR]

Go ahead, put me on the spot...;)

I have used Seachem's Excel with positive results - I'd guesstimate about 1/3 the effect that pressurized CO2 would give. I have never tested any other brand of comparable product. But I did look at a competing product at the LFS, which gave warning not to use the product in a tank with crustaceans. As most of my planted tanks have one or more varieties of shrimp as algae eaters and scavengers, I would never consider that product. Further, I would not add any product to my tanks that listed itself as toxic at normal dosage for any potential tank inhabitant.

Mr Weis has something of a reputation for unfounded or unproven hyperbole.

[aquatrippe]

Hey HTH,

Most helpful, thanks for your quick reply.

I get so angry at myself when I waste money on junk for my aquarium that I can't use.

Having read the links you provided, I am reluctant to even TRY this product because it might just be glorified sugar water.

I think I will try just growing the plants I have with the tetra plantfood and the blackwater extract that were providing good results with my amazon swords.

Wisteria and Valisineria [my new tenants], from what I have read are pretty resililient quick growing plants.

Your SE asia set up sounds fantastic.. thanks for the quick info..

James

[wetmanNY]

Responding in that same Aquatic-Plants Digest that's archived at www.thekrib.com Roger Miller-- a very knowledgable member of the A-PD had this to say:

Marc Weiss products usually come up on this list in exactly this
context. They make apparently exaggerated claims and offer mysterious
solutions, and people write in asking if it's all real. I've never used
any of their products and probably never will, so I can't tell you
whether or not they work.

If I were in the market for that sort of product then I would put my
money behind a brand that is a little more straightforward about what
they sell and what it does.

Chuck Gadd, another well respected aquatic plant guru also deconstructed some of Marc Weiss' claims concerning this product: http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200102/msg00188.html

[aquatrippe]

Hi RTR,

you wrote:

"Further, I would not add any product to my tanks that listed itself as toxic at normal dosage for any potential tank inhabitant. "

I agree. I don't trust anything that claims to be selectively destructive to certain fish.

My guess is that a product with these kind of warnings stresses all living inhabitants of the tank but only kills a few.. thanks but no thanks..


This "carbonator" product claims to be completely safe for all fish plants etc.. but that it might cause "false" high reading of nitrate, ammonia and nitrite..due to some phenomena called a "gas off"

So that makes me wary of trying it..

I havent decided whether I think this stuff is safe to try yet.. Marc Weiss has a website in which he has several articles that were allegedly published in FAMA but they read more like marketing statements and product endorsements..my guess is that he took out large ads and is now presenting them as though they were commissioned articles.

Thanks for the feedback,

James

[aquatrippe]

Hey Wetman,

Thanks for the link..these were the posts I found after I bought the stuff...

Its tempting to believe the extravagant claims of some of these products because we all want great results.

The fact that this guy is held in such low regard and yet still has his products on the shelf is disturbing..

I was suckered because I didnt want to risk a radical ph change that I am told comes with the small 30 dollar co2 gaget..

I still dont want my water variables at risk..but I want those results..thus I bought this bottle..

live and learn.