clowns are sick! (HELP)

[rica5tully]

Help! I have two Ocellaris clowns in a 10-gallon. They have seemd really healthy and swim around and eat like pigs. The last couple of days I've noticed very faint white spots on the fringes of their fins. Today I woke up and looked at the tank and they are covered! It's white filmy or powdery stuff. I assumed Ick at first but it doesn't seem to be distinct spots (like freshwater Ick). Could it be something else?

Even this morning, the clowns were eating and swimming around but they did look a little less spunky.

How can I treat it since I have a red-legged hermit in there?

Fully cycled but only 1 1/2 months old
PH, Amonia, Nitrites are fine
Nitrates = 5-10

Thanks!

[OrionGirl]

Sounds like a fungus or bacteria. Look here and see if anything matches up.

http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html

If the treatment calls for anything that contains copper, you will want to move the fish to another tank for treatment.

[kreblak]

There is a product called No-Ich Marine which treats SW Ich, coral reef disease, and other parasites. I have used it to combat an outbreak of Black Ich, and found it to be very effective. It is reef safe, contains no copper, and is available for $17.99 + S&H at www.drsfostersmith.com

Or you may want to remove the hermit crab and use a copper based medication. "Clout" comes highly recommended by my LFS. There are also many other medications available. Just be sure to monitor the copper levels in your tank, and don't let them rise too high.

[VoodooChild]

I couldn't get Orion's link to work so I may be just repeating info here, but that sounds like Velvet specifically. It generally is untreatable and the best way I've heard of so far is to remove the fish and put them in a quarantine tank. Let the tank sit for like a month (I'll check on this when I get home tonight) so the parasites don't have a host. Then you can put the clowns back.

[kreblak]

Does the "white film" appear anything like this?


Cotton Wool Disease

'Cotton wool disease' is a general term applied to the most common fungal infections that infect the skin, fins, and mouth. The fluffy white growths often colonize areas where there have been previous infections, parasites, or injuries. The most common types of fungi in these infections are Saprolegnia and Achyla. Other fungi may also cause these infections and there may be more than one species at the site of an infection.

Treatment for cotton wool disease includes salt baths or the antifungal agent phenoxyethanol. In some instances, the entire tank is treated, but if individual infections are present, treating the fish in a separate hospital tank is preferable. Individual topical application of the anti-fungal and anti-bacterial agent Gentian Violet is also a treatment option.

[rica5tully]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

My guess is that it is velvet. I lost both my clowns yesterday to it, so all I have in the tank now is a hermit crab.

I don't really want to copper the tank because I'd like to use the rocks in there with inverts in the future.

What do I do to solve this problem? How do I put another fish in there without losing it as well? Is the whole tank contaminated now?

Thanks.

[OrionGirl]

Without knowing for sure what it was, it's hard to say. I would not put any fish in there for 3-4 weeks. Any parasites will die off in this time--they require a piscine host. Bacterial infections are usually only prevalent when there is a wound or sore, or the fish are severelly stressed. I would monitor the water conditions closely for pH, salinity and temp swings, as any of these could be causing stress for the fish and making them more prone to ailments like bacterial infections.

[kreblak]

Sorry you lost your fish. However, all is not lost. The best thing to do is to wait 3-4 weeks with the tank fishless, like orion girl said. You will want to keep a source of ammonia in the tank, though, so your biofilter does not go into decline and you have to re-cycle the tank at the end of the 3-4 weeks. The best way to do this is with cocktail shrimp. One or two should do the trick. Keep them in for a week at a time, and then change them out for "fresh" ones. Try to keep them where your hermit crab cannot get to them. Don't worry about ammonia spikes since there aren't any fish yet, and when you are ready for more fish, you should have a good, strong biofilter in place.

If it was velvet that killed your fish, it should die off without a host. It's life cycle is dependent on water temperature, though. Raising the temperature of your water to about 82 degrees should speed up the parasite's lifecycle, and kill it off faster.

[VoodooChild]

I don't know if I would add any shrimp (sorry Kreblak)...I think if you just continue to feed your hermit every couple of days and only add one fish at a time you should be ok. I'd be worried about the shrimp causing too high of a cycle and then you'd loose your shrimp when the nitrite flies.

[kreblak]

I think some wires got crossed somewhere. I am talking about adding dead cocktail shrimp to the tank to keep the cycle going (like in a fishless cycle) so that he/she doesn't have to start from scratch in 3-4 weeks. I'm not sure I understand your concern of losing the shrimp when nitrites spike. Did you mean the hermit crab, or is there something I am totally off on??

[VoodooChild]

I think we were on the right track. If one shrimp can make a 30 gallon boil I'd hate to see what it can do to a 10. Most inverts can't take nitrite at all and I think no matter how careful you were with it you'd still have a nitrite spike. Just my thoughts though. I could be wrong.

[BrianH]

Does your tank have live rock and a DSB for biological filtration? If so, I would follow voodoo's advice and feed the hermit every 2 or 3 days. When your ready to add fish again, take it slow and add 1 fish per week at most.

Brian

[kreblak]

Okay, I see what you are saying. I think I just got all mixed up. You are quite right (I forgot we were discussing a 10 gallon tank) about the massive ammonia and subsequent nitrite spike created by adding two shrimp. Rica5tully, please disregard what I said about adding the shrimp. That would be too much for a 10 gallon tank.

On the flip side, have you been checking the SG of your tank regularly? With a 10 gallon, even a little bit of water evaporation can raise the SG of your water dramatically. Just a thought as to what could have been stressing your fish.