View Full Version : High user turnover rate on these boards, and possible overfiltration
Why are there so many new users here every day? Are there really this many new people coming to the boards, or do people just get bored with their username and get a new one?
I am preparing to switch over from my 55 gallon tank to my new 100 gallon tank. Stand designs finished, canopy designs in process, and filtration purchased. I have my new Eheim 2028 running on my 55 gallon to get it cycling before switching it over to the 100 gallon.
The question is, would it be overkill to add an Eheim 2213 to 2028 filtering the 100 gallon tank? Currently I only have 1 12" pleco and 3 bala sharks, but plan to add 5 cory sterbai and 1 loach of some sort. I already purchased the 2213 but can use it on my 20 gallon Lake Tanganyika tank instead. That would be quite a relief since the Biowheel 170 that's on there now is quite noisy...
If I should in fact add the 2213, should I set it up on the other side of the tank?
I think that most of these new posters have a question they need answered or are just temporarily curious. After their needs are met, they move on.
wetmanNY
04-13-2003, 8:43 PM
As often as not, the one-hit wonders silently scan answers and move on without registering any reaction at all.
Some oldtimers ignore posts 1 and 2 for this reason.
beviking
04-13-2003, 8:58 PM
Of course, there are those who continuously answer replies to the point of possibly being annoying! And I wouldn't, er...uh, they wouldn't want to be a pest!!;)
It's all the same to me. If I can help...IF, then it doesn't matter to me who it is.
Overkill maybe. Is that good or bad? That depends on your situation. You could just go with the 2028 on the 100 IMHO.
I'm one of the folks who hold that it is not possible to overfilter a tank. Biofiltration is self-limiting to the ammonia/nitrite supply; mechanical is limited only by particle size captured and clogging (that last an upkeep isue, not quantity). But it is possible to have too much current - but with canisters the spray-bar returns can be customized and or so positioned as to avoid such problems.
What you need is very much a function of the particular setup.
Edit: forgot the turnover question - valid reasons have already been given, but one not mentioned is that this hobby itself has a very high drop-out rate. A depressing percentage of the folk starting up their first tank will not have an operating tank 12 months later.
somefinnfishy
04-13-2003, 11:13 PM
Then you have freaks like me who will never leave:D
TomFromStLouis
04-13-2003, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by RTR
this hobby itself has a very high drop-out rate. A depressing percentage of the folk starting up their first tank will not have an operating tank 12 months later.
Anyone have any statistics on this? We all know it to be true, but I wonder if a manufacturer or anyone has done a study. On the one hand, it certainly keeps product sales up. I looked at a used tank from a classified ad just as I was warming up to the idea of starting a tank after 20 years. The ad said 55 gallon, but she said it might be 70g, she wasn't sure. After measuring it, I learned it was 150g! Alas, too tall for my planted tank plans, but boy, some people have no clue what they are doing with this stuff, do they?
wetmanNY
04-14-2003, 12:05 AM
Thinking your 150 was a 55, then when you medicate at half strength against Ich, you could go on and on, wondering why you couldn't ever eliminate the pest...
There's a nawful lot of bogus advice out there, at LFS and even among boards that consider themselves true fish geeks...
Bristlenose Chuck
04-14-2003, 12:41 AM
As far as turnover, I have been posting here for a couple of years. I have had to change screen names few times because I usually get on a kick and post all the time for a few months and then disappear for a while. When I disappear, I end up deleting my cookies which deletes your saved screen names and passwords. Of course I cannot remember them for this site so I have to create a new screen name. My post count then starts back at zero. My post count is low right now for that reason. :D
I've seen dropout percentages in the trade publications, but don't have any handy. If I can find some, I'll post back.
Folks rarely understand what they are getting into with tanks, and a significant part of the dropout is from parents indulging kids, neither with valid info, and they get trapped in over-treating, over-modifying water, serious diseases and incompatabilities. Understandably they terminate and the tank shows up in the next yard sale. The same effect can come from individuals indulging themselves, to the same end. Our society has many folks operating on the "I want that, therefore I can have that" idea. Just scan these forums - you will see plenty.
The special-interest internet has never been a stable population. I came to this board when another was having flame wars (basically unmoderated), and there are not many folks left from when I came here first. Interests do change.
Tinycl
04-14-2003, 4:07 PM
Wetmans reply bothered me a little.I just registered with the forums after watching for a couple weeks and i feel this is the best board to get help from.I just made a post today and if it gets ignored then I also will move on.
I feel it's bad to not reply to a post cause the poster only has 1 or 2 posts,when they really need help,regardless if it is a "stupid" question or not.
Attitudes like that on the boards hurt more than help.
Just my 2 cents worth:confused:
slipknottin
04-14-2003, 4:18 PM
There are always some willing members to help out.
Its when "newbies" come back and ask more questions that many of us jump in.
You too would find it annoying to help out some 20 people a day only to never have any of them post back with further questions or say thankyou.
By far the worst are the ones that come with a troubleshooting question... You ask them what their water parameters are, or ask for more details, and they never respond... :rolleyes:
Just as an FYI, wetmanNY is one of the more knowledgeable members here, and one of the most conscientious reponders.
Posting a response to a thread just to be posting is hardly helpful IMHO & IME. None of us is paid for this - we try to help if an when we feel we can help. If that does not meet your approval, perhaps the mutual help forums are not the best choice for you.
beviking
04-14-2003, 6:05 PM
Tinycl, it is certainly easy to get discouraged if noone responds to a question. It is also possible that those answering questions (which is everyone, me, you, wetman, RTR, slip, etc...) just happen to miss the question b/c they were busy posting responses to other questions, checking on previou posts they made, etc.... Both of the previous are VERY rare.
If noone responds, you can just re-post the thread or "bump" it. If that doesn't suite you, you can sit back like myself and revel in the fact that your question was just too much for us (oh, I mean them!) dummies to answer!!:D
Tinycl
04-14-2003, 6:42 PM
I'm very sorry about the way my earlier reply sounded.It's just that it's hard for a newbie to get good help.My lfs around this area only want to sell more fish but don't want to help anybody with answering questions, so I must rely on message boards and web-sites to figure things out.This site in my opinion is one of the best and I really enjoy all the threads here.
Sorry again.
Also sorry about taking this thread a different direction.
slipknottin
04-14-2003, 6:46 PM
I dont think any of us are offended...
Anyway, welcome to AC :D
125gJoe
04-14-2003, 7:58 PM
Originally posted by Tinycl
.... ..My lfs around this area only want to sell more fish but don't want to help anybody with answering questions, so I must rely on message boards and web-sites to figure things out.This site in my opinion is one of the best and I really enjoy all the threads here.
Sorry again.
Also sorry about taking this thread a different direction. http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
Yes - Welcome to Aquaria Central !
I know I have missed postings on here! At times there are lots of posts going on......
And, threads do "go off in a tangent" sometimes - can't help that.. What should be known is that there are no 'voice inflections' on bulletin boards - it can be very 'cut and dry' with the typed word. And, here's where sometimes people need to be a bit "thick skinned" and not take some posts too literal or serious.
If someone posts a question and there's no reply or minimal, then try and pose the question differently!
LFS's concern is the mighty dollar... ($ for out of towners'.. LOL)...
There are some LFS's that actually care about their customers too. I almost found one here..in Orlando. :D
kveeti
04-14-2003, 10:07 PM
Welcome to AC, Tinycl. 80gJoe is right about being "thick skinned" sometimes. When I was new (but already in the double digits) I posted a question that nobody answered and I felt mortified that my question was too stupid. Lo and behold a few months later somebody else posted an identical question which got lots of responses... guess I should have brushed my teeth.
wetmanNY
04-14-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by wetmanNY
As often as not, the one-hit wonders silently scan answers and move on without registering any reaction at all.
Some oldtimers ignore posts 1 and 2 for this reason.
Just looking back to see what it was that I posted that was so extraordinary. Still don't see it...
I even have days when I'm just not in the mood to be tolerant of newbies, and I don't open that forum. Other days I'm very patient.
Old hands avoid posting unless they have a hunch, or a helpful angle, or they can read between the lines and detect troubles. Sometimes you're forced to play Twenty Questions ("Is your aquarium bigger than a bread box?"). You're up to it one day. Another day you can't be bothered with prying out a little necessary information. Just human.
Old hands usually open the Newbie Forum with a gentler hand. Some rank newbie posts in the General Freshwater forum are there because the poster thinks it's the shorter line or the faster lane or something. Pushy. If a post is slightly irritating ("I've researched all over and can't find a thing about these white spots..."), a smart old hand skips it. Why burn out?
We're here to learn too, after all. We're here to be stimulated. We're here to have a couple of laughs... sometimes at someone's expense, sometimes at our own clownishness.
Just don't expect me to open a thread with a title like "So how's this?" or "Eek! Hellpp!!!" Make me interested! It's easy, because I'm very curious by nature...
Originally posted by wetmanNY
There's a nawful lot of bogus advice out there, at LFS and even among boards that consider themselves true fish geeks...
I think this is what bothered Tinycl.
Skittyfish
04-15-2003, 10:57 AM
Heady- didn't you ask about overfiltration? I am "one of those" who only use one filter. I have an Eheim 2026 on my 72 g. Seems to work just fine, although I am definately not overstocked.
Good luck with your new tank, sounds like fun (jealous, as i would love to have another).
OrionGirl
04-15-2003, 11:21 AM
Something else which discourages responses is when a topic clearly has been covered, in depth, previously. Run a quick search on ich, and you'll come up with tons of threads. 90% of them cover the same information, with very few offering much in the way of new parameters or conditions. So, what is the motive for me (or anyone else) to respond, when the poster won't even make the effort to find information on their own?
I try to at least scan each new post once. If I feel I have something to offer, I will do so. If not, I move on. Threads I posted on are reviewed a couple times after that. Sometimes I have the time to come back and see how something has progressed on a thread I didn't respond to initially.
For filtration--over filtration is always better than underfiltration. However, one thing to keep in mind is the amount of current generated by multiple filters, and the stock. Some fish love fast currents, while others dont, so increasing the filtration but generating a whirl pool won't help.
Since you are going to be using the filter one way or another, I would throw it on now. This will help establish the bacteria colony if it goes on the other tank, and I don't think any of your current fish will object to some additional current.
wetmanNY
04-15-2003, 11:39 AM
How could it be upsetting, suddenly to learn that an awful lot of the "information" you get at LFS is bogus? We hear the results of that at AC all the time.
And there are plenty of bulletin boards very authoritatively dispensing tripe.
If you dispense tripe here at AC, there's always someone willing to set the record straight. You learn in public. It takes courage. I've been embarassed many times...
thank you, RTR!
Embarrassed? Just about every time I defend UG, have to admit how many filters I use on my tanks, or how many tanks I run, and how much water I change I am at least a bit embarrassed. Even if nobody reacts.
I do admit that I skip over lots of threads - being old and cranky and a bit influnced by a local skeptic, topic titles are more important to me than they once were. It is a waste to open a thread and find that the question is on something I know absolutely nothing about. Or a topic with 5 identical threads going at the momemt.
OrionGirl
04-15-2003, 3:11 PM
I've been corrected by others more knowledgable than myself, but not embarrassed. I'd rather be corrected than look silly for spreading myths and rumors.
Tinycl
04-15-2003, 8:23 PM
The remark that struck me wrong was about the "one hit wonders" and the old-timers skipping the 1 and 2 posters.I took it in the wrong way and prolly should not have replyed the way i did.
I appologize again.
Being a newbie,I guess maybe I have been jerked around by my lfs's lately and I had to vent or something like that.;) :D
wetmanNY
04-15-2003, 9:01 PM
It never ocurred to me that "one-hit wonder" would apply to you, Tinycl--or any newbie...
...other than the ones who post once, get fifteen creative and thoughtful replies, never post back to say what they did or how it went or anything you could learn from in your turn, and are lost over the Event Horizon into the Black Hole...
...besides, you're already a seven-hitter!
Glenstorm
04-15-2003, 9:31 PM
Originally posted by wetmanNY
And there are plenty of bulletin boards very authoritatively dispensing tripe.
YUM!!!
Nothing like a good tripe sandwich!!
CharlyBaltimore
04-15-2003, 9:35 PM
Bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeccccccccch!
Originally posted by Tinycl
The remark that struck me wrong was about the "one hit wonders" and the old-timers skipping the 1 and 2 posters.I took it in the wrong way and prolly should not have replyed the way i did.
I know how you feel Tinycl :)
I'm quite new here too (actually not a newbie, just out of the hobby for several years and lately coming back). As previously mentioned, the replies to a person's initial post can depend on many things. I've noticed too that the more specific the title, and the more info given in the body of the post, the more responses that will be generated to the post. Replying to the follow-up questions and showing appreciation of others' replies help a lot too.
beviking
04-16-2003, 2:10 PM
WE react RTR! Maybe not via keyboard but nonetheless, we react;)
I'm of the opinion that ignorance is more rampant than knowledge (pertaining to any one individual, although on any given topic one is more prevelant) and (like OrionGirl) would rather be corrected. Given that, there is really no need to be embarrassed, but we're only human!
Irony...chelated...ha! I get that one! Still haven't looked up irascible. Did I say ignorance was rampant???
:cool:
Irascible could be loosely defined as behaving like RTR when folk hear but don't listen.:rolleyes:
meow!!!!
What can also be intimidating to the Newbie or even the Post Newbie are some of the terms and concepts that are bandied about. *ChiliDawg, is that Glossary just about done yet?*
I have just about given up trying to understand the algae-nutrient relationship. I put it down to my own busyness/lazyness. I haven't bothered to pick up a book in an attempt to truly understand it yet. I think that is a clue as to why some only post briefly. They are looking for the "quick fix" rather than research the issue. Yes, I am guilty of this. Time to hit the books!
wetmanNY
04-18-2003, 10:33 AM
But nobody understands the algae/nutrient relationship. That's part of why there's so much posting about getting rd of algae!
1. Follow links and 2. learn to use www.google.com ! Try googling things like "freshwater aquarium algae" Soon you'll be googling "calcium magnesium nutrient competition"
tricksterpup
04-18-2003, 2:06 PM
Ok, here is my 2 cents worth..
I am a big advocate for Books and the materials contained in them. I agree with Matak on the "Quick Fix" theory. To many are just looking for a quick fix and I get the feeling that my advice isn't being used or attempted. So over the time here, i have just given simple and helpful hints. :)
But I highly recommend everyone to Read books, try research libraries and magazines on the market. :) Research till you drop.
ok, that was 2 cents worth. ;)
jim
lawnman
04-19-2003, 1:15 AM
Originally posted by wetmanNY
As often as not, the one-hit wonders silently scan answers and move on without registering any reaction at all.
Some oldtimers ignore posts 1 and 2 for this reason.
I find this sad. We have a snow rodeo every year and all the so called OLD TIMERS that could offer their skills stand back and choose not to get involved in it because they don't want to be bothered.
There are new people to this board that don't know their way around and maybe need a old timer to show them the way.
If I knew it all and didn't want to be bothered I wouldn't sign on?
Thanks for your time
lawnman - when you have answered the same question a few hundred times, and when the answer is available multiple times on the current board and still more by the search function, it is a waste of time and bandwidth. We are not paid to do this, otherwise your point might have validity. But as we all have limited time to devote here, why should we be expected to repeat the same advice over and over when we could be instead answering fresh questions?
None of us knows it all, we all learn here, but some of have more experience than others and share that. I find your attitude peculiar to say the least. It is good IMHO that you are not operatimg the board.
Pam Lowrey
04-19-2003, 10:36 AM
Hi all,
Just adding another newbie's 2 cents...
There's an awful lot of bogus advice out there in the world in general, not just concerning fish. IMHO it is the responsibility of the person with the question to analyze the advice & see if only one person is giving it, or if others agree. It's especially easy to bs people on the internet b/c you don't have that face-to-face interaction going on. Like wetman NY's site says... be a 'Skeptical Aquarist'.
:p
P.S. I posted this after only reading the first page of posts - had a brain cramp & missed seeing the 2nd page.
wetmanNY
04-19-2003, 11:16 AM
Each time I see my first post quoted, it sounds crustier and more jaded!
But old-timers do evaluate the concern and energy that have gone into newbie posts, and they reply with an appropriate level of energy and concern.
Old-timers are good at reading between the lines (sometimes!) and giving advice that will be useful at the poster's experience level.
But many "simple" newbie questions aren't easily answered. Sometimes an accurate answer would be complicated.
Whether it's worth the trouble or not depends a bit on what's gone into the posting.
That's natural...
beviking
04-19-2003, 11:35 AM
Maybe a "Sticky" to let "newbies" know how to use the search function is in order??? Ooooooooooh how the ich and salt questions would cease. Would there be any more new posts?:eek:
Going to post one right now!:)
Matak
04-19-2003, 12:39 PM
Bevi's got a good point. If we cut out all the redundant q's, there would only be about 10 new posts per week. That might make our board look lame.
Bring on the repetetive questions, even if it is only for the appearance of activity. (Besides, it give us post newbies a place to practise ;) )