Lookdown

[kreblak]

My LFS recently got in stock a "Lookdown." It is a large (1.5 feet), silver, extremely thin fish. It is shaped like a Pompano (very circular body, but bigger) It has an anal and dorsal fin that are yellow and bowed back, not unlike a Yellowfin Tuna. I am told it eats virtually any fish small enough to fit in it's mouth. Does anyone know more about this fish? Natural habitat, feeding habits, etc.?

[ChilDawg]

I don't have any links per se, but I can tell you that this fish is called Selene vomer in Latin terms. HTH

~Matthew

[ChilDawg]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/carangidfaqs.htm

[ChilDawg]

http://www.thereefweb.com/stock_lists.htm

[ChilDawg]

As you can see, there isn't a lot of info on these fish, but you might be assisted by following some of the keywords in these articles.

[kreblak]

Yep, the picture on the first link was dead on. I've just never seen anything eat like one of these before. Three feeder guppies (I know they're FW, but the guys at the LFS were feeling wacky) were placed in the tank with the Lookdown, and they were gone within 2 seconds. I mean one bite and they were history. I haven't even seen an Emperor Snapper or a Pantherfish do that.

[ChilDawg]

Actually, feeder guppies might be the best feeder fish since many of their diseases couldn't be transmitted to SW fish. I would look some more at mooneyes--I guess that was the term for their family--in order to see more about captive care before I got one.

[agilis]

Lookdowns are one of my favorite fish. I've been keeping them for more years than I care to admit. I've got three right now, each about 3 inches long. I caught them this past August, when they were very small, slightly bigger than a quarter. They can get big in the ocean, but 18 inches is pretty huge, even for a wild fish. I've maintained individuals that were tiny when I collected them for more than three years, at which point they were about 5 inches SL, about the size of a small dessert plate.

Lookdowns, Selene vomer, are members of the Jack family. They are extremely flat and thin, almost unbelievably so viewed head-on. They are a wonderful silver color, with a very steeply raked "forehead", thus "vomer". When very young, up to about 2 inches, they have long filamentous streamers from the dorsal and anal fins, much longer than the fish. When the fish gets bigger, the streamers are lost, but the silver acquires beautiful purple highlights. Sometimes Lookdowns are called Moonfish, and look a lot like African Pompano juveniles, to which they are related. Lookdows are fairly common in summer all the way up the east coast. They are very common in Florida.

Lookdowns are a little delicate at first when really small, but this is the best way to get them. They will adjust to captivity easily,and soon eat almost anything. Mine love Hikari "Marine A" pellets, but will eat chunks of frozen formula, worms, krill, etc., etc., and still more et ceteras. They are voracious, but have no bad habits, do not fight with other fish, and are spectacular in a large tank. They are a schooling fish, and there should be at least two of them. They are strong active swimmers, and a tank at least 4 feet long is necessary. Any fish that is much smaller is at risk, but I have kept big ones with basslets, chromis, etc., with no losses.

These are wonderful fish if you have the room, and can afford two or more. Around here, they sell for serious money, $75 to $100 each. I get mine for free, of course. If you have spotted any juveniles in north Jersey shops, there is a good chance I caught them.
I strongly recommend against getting a wild-caught adult. Juveniles are the only way to go.

[ChilDawg]

Thanks, agilis! I'm glad to see some info on these beauties b/c I came up wayyy too short with my web search, and that doesn't often happen!

[MonoSebaelover]

FYI Chil, the problem with diseases is not the issue with feeding feeders to marine predators. The issue is that sw fish can not digest the skulls of the feeders and also can not pass it. FW fish have 20% more fat than your average marine fish. Brackish fish are quite a bit better with 8%. Feeding SW predators FW feeders is like feeding a human McDonalds every day for the rest of their lives. The feeders cause Fatty Liver Disease which over time causes the liver to increase in size to the point that it crushes all the other vital organs. Not a pretty way to die, I would assume! Didn't know if you knew this or not, but thought I would make sure. I have most of the common sw predators (Triggers, Puffers, Lions, Groupers, Eels, etc) and none of them have even seen a feeder and show the most vibrant colors I've ever seen. Remember, it is not every day that a little goldfish swims into the ocean to feed a predator. Nature has her own way of feeding them the right foods!

[ChilDawg]

Oops...I hadn't heard that part of the SW disease thing...I did not know that there was that aspect to diseases from feeders as well.

[VoodooChild]

I thought that only the goldfish contain such a high amount of fat. I thought the tuffs were along the lines of 4-5%...

[votek]

Originally posted by VoodooChild
I thought that only the goldfish contain such a high amount of fat. I thought the tuffs were along the lines of 4-5%...

Thats what I thought as well. Even though I keep a bag of raw jumbo shrimp in the freezer and just cut a couple pieces up each night and drop them in there and my snowflake goes insane. :cool:

[kreblak]

So what fish makes a good SW feeder? Other than brine shrimp, of course, which everything in the ocean seems to eat! Is it possible to get something like sardines as feeders? Are they even necessary given the quality of frozen prepared foods? Also, will a natural predator who has grown used to eating frozen or cut foods no longer predate other fish if given the opportunity?

[VoodooChild]

If you're talking about the sardines in a tin, there's probably much more oil in there than any amount of goldfish could ever give. I've seen fish weened off of feeders, and other fish eating exclusively on brand of flake, but I think predatory instincts will kick in no matter what. That being said though, they may only take nibbles or just follow it around and then loose interest.

[kreblak]

I was thinking more along the lines of live sardines, or maybe anchovies. Any schooling fish that gets munched on in the open ocean.

My primary concern over predators eating habits and trainability is that I would like to include some in a large (300 gallon) reef tank I am planning. I was thinking that a small school of about 10 Chromis would be good to have swimming about the reef, but if my other fish are going to snack on them, then I may have to reconsider.

[MonoSebaelover]

Any freshwater fish. I'm not familiar with Tuffs though. Are they like Rosy Red Minnows? If so, then yes they have as much as a goldfish. If you are bound and determined to feed your predator a "feeder fish" feed it any type of Damsel. Know why they are so fricken fast and a pia to catch? They have to have speed in order to get away from the predators. Damsels, Gobies, Anthias, etc are feeders for lg marine predators. Kreblak- what kind of fish are you going to put in your reef? As long as you don't put any Puffers, Triggers, Lg Eels, Groupers, etc you should be okay to keep smaller fish.

[kreblak]

I was planning on multiple groupers and an Emperor Snapper. I have been toying with the idea of a Barracuda. 300 gallons ought to allow him the room he needs...just as long as he doesn't turn into a seven footer!

[MonoSebaelover]

Just be careful with multiple groupers cause they can be kinda territorial. I have a White spotted and Clown (Leaflip) in my 209 and they leave each other alone. The White spotted thinks he's pretty tough though. He goes after the triggers and Eel if they get to close to his one little section. Red Snappers are fun but get HUGE! 2 feet is not an uncommon size for them. If I were you I would definetly get a Miniata though! They are by far the prettiest of all groupers. Just remember that groupers can and will eat things that are 2/3's their body size!