Best filtration for my tank? (Once & for all)

[sChArF]

Ok once and for all. What do you think would be the best filtration option for my 130gal fully planted discus tank? I would like to inject C02 somewhere down the road as well.

[JamisonBWolsh]

dude,

Build your own sump!!! less expensive in the long wrong....h+ll, less expensive short term as well. Adds MANY more gallons of water overall. you can choose how much Bio and mech filtration. The best thing out there. I would get it, but my tank is glass and im not so sure about that syphon.oh..no PRIMING!!!

[Turbo]

Jamison, how did you build yours?

[RTR]

Crab, crab, crab....A sump is not a filter, it is a container, a tank, a vessel of some sort attached such that the water exchanges between the display and the sump.

A sump may be used to house many or any type of filter - W/D, canister, DSB, plenum, veggie, even UG - whatever. Or a sump may only be a refugium, or only a means to increase the water volume in the system.

If you mean W/D, say so. ;)

[JamisonBWolsh]

You can use it as a filter though. Add a mech filter on the entrance to the syphon and you can add bioballs or whatever in the inside of the sump. You can use a plastic (food safe) container and add 40 gallon of water to that, inside, you can add the bioballs for bio filtration. you can also add a heater or bubble wall or whatever you like. But adding this setup will give your tank an additoinal 40 gallons!!! while a canistor will hold only about 2 gallons. I would use a emperor 400 with the sump.

[val]

Interesting poll. Only giving choices for Eheims... What's the point?

Val

[JeffP]

I choose "E", an in-tank box filter with floss and carbon.:D

[RTR]

JBW - as I said, it can be used as a filter , or to house filters, but a sump is not a filter, it is a sump. If it is used for filtration, that must be specified, otherwise no informaton is transmitted.

[slipknottin]

seeing as you want to have a pretty heavily planted tank (why else would you want c02) your main thing you want to accomplish is mechanical filtration.

most canisters are likely going to be used as mostly bio-filtration, unless you want to open it up once a week.

Id say your best soultion would be to setup a sump and setup a sort of wet/dry filter but with mostly mechanical media. You can then add a section to the sump filled with bio media if you choose.

[sChArF]

Well I have been reseaching this a far bit, and when someone says sump they are usulay refring to a filter of somesort.

This is what I am thinking for the Sump, use a 72gal tank have half of it filled with bio balls, and make a tower out of the water fill it with bio balls for wet/dry filtration. And put a layer of Lava rock on the bottom of the other half of the tank were the pump and heaters are. The pump I am looking at works at 850gph.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Instead of a tank...you can use a LARGE plastic garbage can (food safe) That you:

1.) save money
2.) you can use that 72 gallon for fish!

I would just say use a garbage can or plastic container.

One question: is your tank glass or arcylic? If it is glass, are you going to use a syphon?

[sChArF]

Here are some Prices in Canadian funds, Prices do not include media.

Sump
72gal $441
50gal $341

Eheim 2028 $439.99
Eheim 2250 $349.99
Eheim 2260 $449.99

[slipknottin]

a syphon? :confused:

[JamisonBWolsh]

why dont you just use a plastic container? I dont understand? The most it will cost you is, what, 20 dollars?

[sChArF]

JamisonBWolsh: My tank is Glass and i am going to get a hole drilled if I go the sump route

I am going to look into Doing the sump my self. cuz the more money i can save on the filter the more i can spend flourite

[JamisonBWolsh]

your going to get a professional drill the hole? I hear its hard to do on a glass tank.

[slipknottin]

its not hard at all.... it takes awhile, but its not hard to do.

[JamisonBWolsh]

well, Im not going to drill a hole in my glass tank. I would use a syphon.

[slipknottin]

a syphon?

[sChArF]

Yah, one of the LFS knows a guy it will cost $60 apposed to $150 for the plastic box and hose.

I really want to make sure i am getting the best and reasonably priced filter for my tank.

I don’t think they have a big enough Rubbermaid container for what I am looking for.
But if i am wrong please let me know.

is 850gph too much?

[JamisonBWolsh]

How many gallons does a plastic garbage can hold?

[slipknottin]

the biggest rubbermaid tub you should use is the 20 gallon one... the larger ones have been known to fail.

850 GPH isnt too much, if outputing through a spray bar you wont even feel the current.

a drilled tank is more reliable. the only way to go IMO.

[sChArF]

About 40gals, But it needs to fit under my stand as well.

[JamisonBWolsh]

how does a plastic garbage can fail??? some people use it to collect rainwater for their water change. Instead of wasting a 72 gallon tank as a sump, use it as a fish tank and buy a garbage can

[slipknottin]

whose talking about garbage cans? :confused:

[JamisonBWolsh]

Well, I suggested a plastic container or a plastic garbage can. Then you said it will fail.. and I said.. how?

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by slipknottin
the biggest rubbermaid tub you should use is the 20 gallon one... the larger ones have been known to fail.




where did i mention garbage cans fail?

[JamisonBWolsh]

Fine..you said TUB....before you made that statement.. I provided him a solution= to use a plastic container OR a garbage can save him a whole bunch of money instead of buying another tank. I never mentioned tubs anytime.

[slipknottin]

I think he should use a tank for a couple good reasons.

1. he cant fit a trash can in his stand.
2. there are only a few kind of rubbermaid "items" (trashcans, storage boxes, etc. etc.) that are food grade (safe for his tank)
3. the rubbermaid tubs ie. storage boxes are not large enough for what he wants to do.
4. the ones that are large have leaked/broken/failed on quite a few people that have used them.
5. he can see into the sump, makes looking at the water line and filter media about 200% easier.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Rubbermaid is NOT the only grade of plastic. there are PROFFESSIONAL grade plastic containers available. Which are STRONG and DURABLE!

But, hey, if he wants to spend the extra 150.00, buy a tank

[JamisonBWolsh]

oh...yea.. How does the containers "fail"- are they the cheap containers?

[slipknottin]

i see you love arguing.

Rubbermaid isnt even a grade of plastic... its a company that makes most rubber storage bins. Try to find a product around you made by another company. Harder than you think.

Im glad your such an advocate of rubbermaid. Tell me, how many of their products have you used as tanks?


These are the expensive ones, when they become completely filled with water either they give way, or the ones with "feet" on the bottom break open.

[JamisonBWolsh]

I dont. I dont like rubbermaid at all actually. Go to any Restaurant supply store and you can get VERY good Plastic containers.

I dont like fighting. Everytime I make a suggestion, you doubt me. In this case, he can go to where the restaurant go to buy the containers. Quality Plastics..food safe of course

[slipknottin]

i must ask... what is a resturant supply store?

and what size, shape, etc. are these storage bins in?

[JamisonBWolsh]

These are the major wholesellers open to the public to buy heavy duty kitchen/restaurants equipment. I never paid attention to them because, Large quality made plactic containers does not interest me. But now it does, since Im interested in making a sump. Time to thaw the brine shrimp for my fish !

[slipknottin]

right...

and how are you going to attach the sump? youve skipped that question a few times... a "syphon"?


and you skipped over the other 3 reasons i gave why tanks are better...

Ive already helped the topic starter out with his questions.. so feel free to preach on.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Here is a link of a plastic container you can use. You can add levels inside (like one big canistor)

http://www.containerandpackaging.com/item.asp?item=DRUPD001

you can pick this up at your restaurant supplier.
I would really suggest this method. It will save you a BUNCH on
money!

Add the siphon to your tank and let it drain in this. add a water pump and whatever else..including heaters or whatever!
Besides..I was helping him before you joined this conversation

[slipknottin]

maybe you missed his response already...

it needs to fit in his stand.

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh

Add the siphon to your tank and let it drain in this. !

:confused: what are you talking about?



Besides..I was helping him before you joined this conversation
http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/crying.gif

[JamisonBWolsh]

You dont know what I siphon is? you add this to the top of your tank and it drains the water to your sump. Using this, you dont have to drill your tank.

here it is:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=3642

Granted..this is not the BEST siphon out there: Its just an example.

But this is what a siphon is SLIP!

[slipknottin]

thats not a siphon- its an overflow box.

and its a CPR... horrible thing. more failure prone than any other overflow box out there.

a "siphon" is just a tube or pipe thats inverted to keep water levels the same on both side. a siphon tube by itself wont work for a sump.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Oh..take note that in the ad, it says "Can be hard plumbed with standard PVC pipe"...does not mention ABS.. hmmmm? but thats another dead discussion.


well he can use that to go to the sump... that was just an example. Be carefull what you say. CPR can sue you. That IS slander.

[sChArF]

Thank you very much for your help slipknottin & JamisonBWolsh.
So I guess The Sump is the best chose for my application?

Well I have you both here so eager to help me out.
Would a 50gal sump still be a very decently sized sump for my 130?
Or should I keep my mind set on the 72

[slipknottin]

CPR cant sue anybody. there are numerous cases of them failing.

If they do want to sue someone they should spend the money on product development. Maybe theyll make a product that actually works right. SOS overflows are the same thing... recently ive heard of quite a few failures.

[slipknottin]

use the 50... no sense in spending the additional cash on a tank you wont even see.

[sChArF]

Frankly I feel a lot safer going with a tank. So can we please discontinue this debate with regards to the type of sump I should use.

[JamisonBWolsh]

you should stop that slander. Even though your only 18, they can still sue you easily.

No more debating is fine. I was just trying to save you a hundrend bucks..

[slipknottin]

do you know the definition of slander?

I never commited slander. I stated truth, and personal experiences of many people.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Oh.. yea.. 50 gallons are ALOT less then 72 gallon tanks. Prices tend to go up DRAMATICally for tanks over 60 gallons (over in cali anyway). Here a 60 gallon glass tank goes for 50.00 (including light and cover).

[JamisonBWolsh]

samething about that guy being sued by petswarehouse. Review that case and you will see what you just typed in is the same thing that guy did. But i think your safe. they dont read these forums...maybe :eek:

[Mattimeo]

I've used and know MANY people who have used all sorts of containers from rubbermaid to high end brands as tanks, and every single type I've heard of failures. They are plastic, so they tend to bow alot, and the plastic can rot (just like elastic bands). Also, these things aren't checked to ensure that each side is perfect thickness, so if even 1 small spot on a side/bottom is a bit thinner than the rest, the whole structure is weakened. Anything above 35g IMO is unreliable.

[slipknottin]

did you read the thing? he sued people for comments like "petswarehouse doesnt even ship when they say they do"

things like that. They had no proof for those statements.

Besides, the guy hasent won any cases or money.

There are only a few companies out there who think sueing your customers (on an online forum nontheless) is good business.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Matt: check out that link to a specific kind of container that is DURABLE and wont rust or bend. Its made for food. But eithor way the cost for that container would probably equal to that of a 60 gallon glass tank (50.00 for a tank)- so might as well use the tank.

[slipknottin]

oh yea.... and all overflow boxes are far more likely to fail than a drilled tank. not IMO.... fact.

[JamisonBWolsh]

I never disputed that fact. But many of us cant or wont drill holes in our glass tanks. So a overflow box siphon is the next best thing.

The major problem is if air gets trapped in the siphon, it can break the siphon. If the siphon breaks, then the pump in the sump wont know about it and flood your tank. There is a way to get around that. Just hook up a device that cuts the power of the pump once the water goes above a given point the tank. this will stop the tank from flooding.

[sChArF]

Great Sump setup pics
http://dojo.illusionwd.com/fish/wetdry.html
http://home.attbi.com/~scottpark/fish/fish.html