Lost & Confused - NEED ADVICE!

[Caresteph]

Well, here I go, hoping to get some good advice. Ok, I currently have a 20 gallon fresh water that I set up in December. While I wanted to cycle the tank without fish, my mother was visiting and SHE was over-anxious to get fish into my tank. So the evening I got the tank all set up, she put my female betta into the tank, and she seemed to do ok. She then went to a pet store (not commercial) and bought 2 neons and 2 rummys. I let them be until about a month later and I have to admit that in this time, I really didn't know about water testing, but the fish seemed to be doing just fine. I then added a Micky Mouse Platty, a Golden Molly, 2 more neons and 2 more rummys and an albino algae eater. All well and began testing for ammonia at this point with Nutrafin, and doing partial water changes and gravel vacuuming + changing out the filters. If the ammonia got too high, well, I'd add a couple of those Jungle fizzies. About a week later, on a Saturday, I added 2 male guppies. The next day one was dead - the tail eaten off it and the other's tail in pretty ragged shape. Needless to say, it died the next day along with my female betta - I'd say she was the culprit, lost a neon and 2 of my rummies. Long story short, I now have: 3 male guppies, 4 cardinal tetras, 4 rummy noses, 1 albino algae eater, 1 sunset gourami, 1 powder blue gourami, 1 golden molly, and 1 Mickey Mouse Platty. I can't seem to get my ammonia and nitrites under control, even though I'm doing about a 25 to 30% pwc every other day; I'm now swishing the filters in the water I take out to clean them rather than replacing them. So after all that, (1) am I overstocked which I suspect I am? (2) I'm getting another 20 gallon and want to cycle with fish. (3) What fish should I remove from my current tank? (4) Can I add gravel from my current tank to the new tank? (5) After I get the new tank running, how long should I wait before adding fish from the "old" tank? (6) Is it possible that my current tank is still cycling? When I change out the water in my current tank, I use tap water that's been set to match the tank's water temp. I add to the bucket Tetra-Safe Water conditioner, Tetra-Ban, Cycle, Stress Zyme and Stress Coat. (7) Am I adding chemicals I don't need to be adding? I do have the Nutrafin Master Test Kit, and my High PH is really really low - like a lime green. I have been adding Proper PH 7, but that doesn't seem to work and that's because I think my water tests as moderate hard (7) What can I do to correct the PH? What am I doing wrong? (8) Do I even need another tank? Any and all advice will be welcome. Thank you for your time.

[jm1212]

1) you sound OS to me because your algea eater will get big and aggressive, two male gouramis will fight, and your molly may harass toher fish in the tank because he doesnt ahve enough females to distract him
2)fishless cycles are much less stressful for you and the fish.
3)i would remove the guppies, platy, one of the gouramis, and either the rummynoses or the cardinals
4)you need to leave all of the gravel in your current tank so it can finish cycling. get this tank's ammoina under control while you fishless cycle the new one
5)wait until the fishless cycle is done
6)yep, since your ammoina and nitrites are high. test your water every day and do a 50% water change every time your ammonia and/or nitrites hit 0.50
7)stop adding "proper pH" it makes the pH fluctuate in the tank and it stresses your fish. your fish should be able to adapt to your regular pH if it remains stable
8)i would get another tank for the molly and one of your schoold of tetras.

[didy]

"Is it possible that my current tank is still cycling?"

Can you post recent water test results? There is a lot of info people will be able to get from them.

[Caresteph]

My ammonia level read 0.6; nitrite 0.3 - does that help?

[J double R]

how often are you cleaning your filters? at the MOST they should need to be cleaned bi-weekly, and i cant even remember the last time i cleaned or changed my HOB media.

if your filter is clogging up that quick, you may be overfeeding or be severely overstocked.

[Kyohti]

1) you sound OS to me because your algea eater will get big and aggressive, two male gouramis will fight, and your molly may harass toher fish in the tank because he doesnt ahve enough females to distract him
2)fishless cycles are much less stressful for you and the fish.
3)i would remove the guppies, platy, one of the gouramis, and either the rummynoses or the cardinals
4)you need to leave all of the gravel in your current tank so it can finish cycling. get this tank's ammoina under control while you fishless cycle the new one
5)wait until the fishless cycle is done
6)yep, since your ammoina and nitrites are high. test your water every day and do a 50% water change every time your ammonia and/or nitrites hit 0.50
7)stop adding "proper pH" it makes the pH fluctuate in the tank and it stresses your fish. your fish should be able to adapt to your regular pH if it remains stable
8)i would get another tank for the molly and one of your schoold of tetras.

This person covered the issue SPLENDIDLY. You're very overstocked, hon!! I'd even go so far as to suggest you return some fish to your LFS until your other tank is cycled. With your pH fluctuating so wildly, and them getting aggressive like they have been, it can't be good for your fish!!

If you're lucky, your LFS will be as understanding as mine was and let you borrow a spare tank in their store for your fish until your tank has cycled. My LFS lady does that... she also will take customer's sick fish and doctor them or babysit them if the customer is out of town or needs the help. Perhaps you could work out an agreement with yours until both your new and old aquariums are cycled and safe? Just a thought. ^__^

[Caresteph]

I have a HOB (I'm assuming that means hanging on the back?). There is 1 filter that is blue with carbon and then there is another filter that's white, mesh looking. I WAS changing the blue filter every 2 weeks but now I understand DON'T DO THAT 'cause I'm killing the good bacteria. I understand that the white filter is called the bio-filter and that should NEVER be changed. So last night I swished the blue one around in the water I had drained from the tank (and it wasn't dirty at all) as I did the white one - neither were run under the tap. Water is flowing very well and I also have a stone bubbler on the bottom.

[Caresteph]

Who should go back to the LFS and who should I keep?

[Caresteph]

Also, if I do the fishless cycle, I've read about adding the pure ammonia, like 5ppm - how do I know how much is 5ppm or any part per million for that matter? Yes, I know - I'm admitting my ignorance:help:

[Hound]

Test kits typically read in ppm. That is your .6 ammonia and .3 nitrite are both measured in ppm. Ideally in a fishy type cycle you should keep your readings under .25ppm of each of those. I also believe that your 20g is overstocked, but thats why lfs typically love impulse buyers. Myself I wouldn't start a second aquarium until after you have the first one under control. A well stocked and maintained 20g probably shouldn't take much more than about 30 minutes per week to maintain. Essentially speaking keep doing water changes using a gravel vacuum enough to keep your ammonia and nitrite low. If you need to lower your fish stock to accomplish this then you should do so. It will most likely take another 4-6 weeks in order for that aquarium to cycle.

Once you have one aquarium that is fully cycled you will be able to jump start the cycle of new aquariums by utilizing bacteria from your first aquarium. That is to say when you do get a second 20g you can seed the new aquarium and start it off with about 4 small fish and possibly never see any ammonia or nitrites. Typically I wait between 2 and 4 weeks before adding fish to a fully cycled aquarium. So if you start with 4 small fish and don't see ammonia or nitrite for 2 weeks then you can add 4 more small fish or possibly one larger fish.

[Rbishop]

as long as you have any fish in that tank, over stocked or not, do water changes as required to keep ammonia and nitites less than .25

[Star_Rider]

as long as you have any fish in that tank, over stocked or not, do water changes as required to keep ammonia and nitites less than .25
definately..you may have to do daily water changes.

but you should come thru this ok.

do not get another tank at this time..you would have to fishless cycle the tank.
but if you wait and let the current tank get established you can prime the new tank with bacteria from the established tank.

after all the stuff you have gone thru..what is your current stock?

[Caresteph]

First of all, thank you EVERYONE for your advice. I did NOT go out and buy another tank as I figured the logical thing to do was/is to get my CURRENT tank under control. So Saturday morning I rinsed off the filters in the tank water that I had siphoned into a bucket. I removed all of the ornaments in the tank and kept them in siphoned tank water so I wouldn't kill the bacteria. I then scrubbed down the walls of the tank with a brush I use only on the tank and then I vacummed the bottom and I guess you could say it was about an 80% water change. When I filled up the bucket with tap water, I put in: Tetra Water Safe, Tetra Easy Balance, Cycle, Stress Coat and Stress Zyme. I put a dinner plate in the bottom of the tank so that the water from the bucket wouldn't swirl stuff around too badly. A water check Saturday night, 2 water checks yesterday, Sunday, and a water check this morning before going to work is showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 6.8ph. Am I doing the right thing or have I done the right thing? I think I'm coming to the conclusion that chemicals other than declorinators, don't need to be used as long as the keep the ammonia and nitrites under control with water changes. Is that a safe "assumption"? My stock consists of: 4 cardinal tetras, 4 rummy noses, 1 golden molly, 3 male guppies, 1 Mickey Mouse platty, 1 sunset Gourami, 1 powder blue gourami and an albino algae eater. My tank is clear - the best I've seen it in a LOOOOONG time. So please - is all this a disaster waiting to happen? Oh, I did discover there are 2 babies swimming around, hiding from the big kids, and I have no clue who mommy is. Do I take them out and into a separate tank? So would someone please let me know if what I did on Saturday was good, not good, etc. I'm still learning and will gladly take advice.

[wataugachicken]

once your tank cycles (you're on your way!) i would do the following -

choose one gourami and the algae eater - return them to your LFS.

add two more of each tetra to fill out the schools.

watch the molly for aggression.

also - is the platy a female? platies and mollies can breed together.
-you put 5 chemicals into your new water. cycle is useless, stress zyme is unnecessary, the easy-balance you don't need because you're doing water changes, and stress coat and water safe do the same thing - dechlorinate the water. pick one.

[Mgamer20o0]

your adding way to many chemicals to the tank. i would just add Tetra Water Safe to remove the clorine from the water. the mommy could be the molly or platy. just leave it in the tank.