African Cichlid(s) and Tetras?

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Vino

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I was wondering if I could acclimate my Black Tetras (In a seperate tank with a tad bit lower hardness and PH) to my soon to be cichlid tank?

1- Would they adjust to the slight changes in parameters?

2- Would they be enough of a middle swimmer that they wouldn't pose a threat to say, Brevis?
 

rufioman

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While they are of a more boisterous personality, as well as water tolerant with the ph and hardness switch, I probably would not. Is it going to be a Tang only tank? That could work but I don't know about the chemistry question, just behavior.
 

adi51096

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I know they are not fighting.They are just roaming together not lip locking,no fin nipping at all :D

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tanker

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IMO--Because of the "Polar Opposites" in water chem requirements for tetras and Rift Lake fish, I would never mix them.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Definitely not. These fish are poles apart in their requirements respecting water parameters, as well as habitat (aquascaping), and then behaviours. It would simply be cruel to the fish to expect them to adjust to something like this.

These individual fish evolved over thousands of years to function in specific water conditions and a specific environment in terms of habitat and such. It is not possible to alter this inherent structure of fish any more than you can "adapt" a polar bear to the Sahara dessert by simply moving it.
 

Vino

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Im not saying I AM going to do this, but I was wondering if it is possible. Seeing as though both my tanks have very similar water parameters. The tank in which the Tetras have been housed in has a PH of 7.6 vs the "Tang" tanks of 7.8. Tha GH and KH are almost the exact same, with the Tang tank being a point higher on each.

Basically the water parameters are the same, the real question I suppose would be the co-habitation with regards to behavior.
 

Byron Amazonas

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I only mentioned the habitat/behaviours issue previously, so I will expand on that for you. First, on the parameters, without knowing the GH I can't say who may be suffering here. GH is more significant for fish than pH, but having said that, the pH can't be way out of bounds either. GH involves the mineral salts in the water, particularly calcium, magnesium, potassium, and manganese, and this has a direct impact on a fish's physiological system. The internal processes that must function 24 hours are designed to function best within certain parameters. While some species can "manage" outside the ideal, some cannot. And while some manage for a time, eventually the strain this causes will take its toll. All of this is usually unseen by us, until it is too late; the fish is suddenly not acting normal, with no apparent reason, or it just dies, also with no apparent reason.

Rift lake cichlids must have higher mineral content in the water than any other fish we maintain in aquaria, with reference to the fish's physiology. If we want the fish to be at their best, we must provide this. If this were me, I would certainly provide an environment with a higher pH (8 or above) which is fairly simple to do, as this is tied to the GH and raising this will correspondingly raise the pH. But there are very few characins for whom this would be manageable. Enough for the present on water parameters.

These two groups of fish come from very different habitats in terms of their aquatic environment. Rift lake habitats are fairly open. The rocky shoreline is about all there is. South American habitats could not be more opposite, and this is the environment required by all characins. They avoid open water like the proverbial plague. They remain within plants in watercourses having aquatic vegetation, or cluster around branches, along the edges covered over by marginal vegetation and overhanging forest, etc. This is why such fish lose their colour in relatively bare tanks such as those in the store. Psychologically they are in danger, and they know it. The fish cannot override what nature has programmed into them. This alone will cause stress, weakening the fish, and it will not be in the best of health because it simply cannot be in such circumstances.

When it comes to behaviours, we must recognize the pheromones and allomones that all fish release into the environment. These chemical signals are read by other fish. Considerable stress can be caused just from this, even if no actual physical interaction occurs. Rift lake fish need rift lake fish as tankmates, and characins do not.

I hope this explains things better, but don't hesitate to ask further.

Byron.
 

Vino

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Western, NY
I only mentioned the habitat/behaviours issue previously, so I will expand on that for you. First, on the parameters, without knowing the GH I can't say who may be suffering here. GH is more significant for fish than pH, but having said that, the pH can't be way out of bounds either. GH involves the mineral salts in the water, particularly calcium, magnesium, potassium, and manganese, and this has a direct impact on a fish's physiological system. The internal processes that must function 24 hours are designed to function best within certain parameters. While some species can "manage" outside the ideal, some cannot. And while some manage for a time, eventually the strain this causes will take its toll. All of this is usually unseen by us, until it is too late; the fish is suddenly not acting normal, with no apparent reason, or it just dies, also with no apparent reason.

Rift lake cichlids must have higher mineral content in the water than any other fish we maintain in aquaria, with reference to the fish's physiology. If we want the fish to be at their best, we must provide this. If this were me, I would certainly provide an environment with a higher pH (8 or above) which is fairly simple to do, as this is tied to the GH and raising this will correspondingly raise the pH. But there are very few characins for whom this would be manageable. Enough for the present on water parameters.

These two groups of fish come from very different habitats in terms of their aquatic environment. Rift lake habitats are fairly open. The rocky shoreline is about all there is. South American habitats could not be more opposite, and this is the environment required by all characins. They avoid open water like the proverbial plague. They remain within plants in watercourses having aquatic vegetation, or cluster around branches, along the edges covered over by marginal vegetation and overhanging forest, etc. This is why such fish lose their colour in relatively bare tanks such as those in the store. Psychologically they are in danger, and they know it. The fish cannot override what nature has programmed into them. This alone will cause stress, weakening the fish, and it will not be in the best of health because it simply cannot be in such circumstances.

When it comes to behaviours, we must recognize the pheromones and allomones that all fish release into the environment. These chemical signals are read by other fish. Considerable stress can be caused just from this, even if no actual physical interaction occurs. Rift lake fish need rift lake fish as tankmates, and characins do not.

I hope this explains things better, but don't hesitate to ask further.

Byron.
This makes sense, Byron.

So how would the, commonly advised, addition of "dither" fish, to a Tang tank environment, be fair to the "dither" fish?

I ask only because that was going to be the purpose of adding my Black Tetras.
 

Byron Amazonas

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This makes sense, Byron.

So how would the, commonly advised, addition of "dither" fish, to a Tang tank environment, be fair to the "dither" fish?

I ask only because that was going to be the purpose of adding my Black Tetras.
I have assumed from the posts in this thread that "Tang" refers to Lake Tanganyika cichlids [the only "Tang" fish I know of is the marine species, so presumably not that]. If I'm correct in this, then "dither" fish rather confuses me. I am not a rift lake cichlid expert, but I would never put any fish other than rift lake fish into a tank of such fish. I would see it as cruel to do so, for the reasons I've earlier set out.

I would be interested to know which sources advocate this. It may be they mean dither fish from the lakes.

Byron.
 

Vino

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I have assumed from the posts in this thread that "Tang" refers to Lake Tanganyika cichlids [the only "Tang" fish I know of is the marine species, so presumably not that]. If I'm correct in this, then "dither" fish rather confuses me. I am not a rift lake cichlid expert, but I would never put any fish other than rift lake fish into a tank of such fish. I would see it as cruel to do so, for the reasons I've earlier set out.

I would be interested to know which sources advocate this. It may be they mean dither fish from the lakes.

Byron.
Yes. Tang is in referecnce to Lake Tanganika. And yes. The "dither" fish are usually recommended as a way in which to coax some of the traditionally "shy" Tang inhabitants (Shell Dwellers) from hiding.

I've seen White Cloud minnows recommended, as well as others. I'll find sources citing these examples for your own query.
 
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