RO/DI Water

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cbster

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Nov 16, 2003
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Can anyone explain to me how this works? what I gather is it takes everything out of the water and you have to put stuff back in. Right? so how come the ph in my tap water is 7.1 and the ph coming out of the filter reads 7.9 on my Milwaukee sms122 ph meter. so if it goes in at 7.1 and you strip everything out of it how does it come out at 7.9? am I missing something here? can someone please explain?
 

cbster

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Nov 16, 2003
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So what your saying is there is no ph because there is nothing in the water. and the ph meter is just trying to read something. so if I took a gallon of water and added something back to it it will show a reading?
 

happychem

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Dec 9, 2003
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:eek:
I'm not positive on how an RO unit works, I can hazard a guess, but I wouldn't want to base an answer on it.

However, I can assure you that your pH meter is not being ill-affected by the RO water "taking everything out".

It's true that you will have removed all/most of your carbonate buffer, however, a pH meter reads H+, not carbonates. H+ will be generated/consumed by water molecules, lacking all other chemicals, to produce a pH of 7.

Gimme a while to think about this, but for the time, I just had to reply to the suggestion that there's nothing to read in the water.
 

happychem

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Ok, it's pretty much what I expected.

Osmosis is, in a nutshell, the movement of water down a concentration gradient. A membrane, permeable to water and some other compounds, divides one volume of water from the other. The water from the side with the least amount of dissolved particles will tend to move towards the side where the water has more dissolved compounds. Only compounds that cannot cross the membrane are considered. If they can cross the membrane, they do not affect osmosis.

The extent to which water from what side will tend towards the other can be counted as the osmotic pressure. This is the force that is required to stop the flow.

A RO unit will take your water and apply enough force to cancel then reverse the direction the water would tend to flow, so, much more pressure than the system's osmotic pressure.

My guess for the increase in your pH is that the membrane is permeable to CO2, but not to carbonate or bicarbonate. So dissolved CO2 will pass, but the other side will become more and more enriched in carbonate species. CO2 and carbonates are related as follows:

CO2 in water forms a little carbonic acid:
CO2 + H2O = H2CO3

Dissociations:
H2CO3 = H+ + HCO3-

HCO3- = H+ + CO3--

As the RO process goes forward, as mentioned above, the carbonate and bicarbonate will be concentrated on one side. The equilibriums will shift to the left hand side.

This process will consume H+ (raising pH) and produce CO2 which can move across the membrane.

At the end of the process, you should have produced water with a higher pH and a higher CO2 content. However, given a bit of time, the RO water will reach a new equilibrium with both the atmosphere (since your tap probably wasn't to start with) and the increased CO2 produced in the RO process.

In short, give it time, and it will come down.

Oooof.
 

JSchmidt

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Jun 27, 1999
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So handy to have a resident chemist!

One thing I don't understand... if you have no carbonates and high CO2, why isn't the pH reading low? I thought CO2 in solution was acidic?

Just trying to learn...

Jim
 

happychem

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CO2 itself isn't acidic.;) A compound needs to have some H+ to release to be acidic:

the reaction of CO2 with water to form carbonic acid, which later dissociates into carbonate & bicarbonate, releases the H+, lowering the pH. See the above equations.

So when you force the equilibrium to dissolved gas, you eat up H+, raising pH.

After passing through the membrane, the equilibrium should shift back, since there would be no carbonates, lowering pH.

I should also clarify that when I say "high" CO2, I mean high relative to the equilibrium.

I hope that clears it up. Don't be shy to pm me if I need to clear it up more.:)
 
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