Newbee needs help....algae....go figure.

cm6755

cm6755

AC Members
Nov 11, 2006
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Indian Trail, NC
I would appreciate some help with algae...I am ready to drain the tank and put it in storage or sell it!!! I will start from the beginning...this may just be the longest posting ever....
I setup 29 or 30 gal long tank in mid August of 2006 with about 1 - 1 1/2 inches of (eeek I know now it's bad) crushed coral, about 15 lbs of live rock (getting more). I have a Red Sea Deluxe Protien Skimmer and an Emperor 'hang-over-the-back' filter with Bio-Wheel (not using Bio Wheel anymore as per advice on this website). The 1st fish I purchased was a Green Target Mandarin Goby (then found out he will probablly die...he is still thriving even through what you are about to hear). I was the Grimm Reaper for a handful of clownfish (Ocellaris, Sebae, True Perculas)...My water paramaters have almost always been where they are supposed to be...with the occasional ph spike or fall.
I did a water change on the tank too early apparently and 'halted' or 'froze' the inital cycle...causing massive amouts of reddish brown (rusty I guess) algae to INVADE and TAKEOVER the entire tank...LFS said Phosphates and get a 'ChemPad'...Phosphate tests read 'no-phosphates'...Ran into someone who knew Salt tanks well and he suggested that I cut the inital cycle too short with the H2O change. I followed his advice to just turn off the lights and pretend it's not there (but keep an eye on it....just keep hands out!!!). This worked...Water paramaters SPIKED and then came back down to where they should be. (Ph 8.4ish Nitrate, Phosphate, Nitrites, Ammonia all ZERO)
goodie goodie...tank is on it's way...(my Yellow Tang is IN SIGHT!!!). Everything has been great untill the middle of October...then the bubble and hair algae TOOK OVER. I have read lots of the posting regarding these types of algae (not to mention books, other internet pages, LFS) and from what I am understanding Nitrates are 'food' for algae...correct me if I am wrong about anything...this is why I am writing. How do I combat this issue?

I would love to get a handle on the underlying problems with algae. I have bubble and hair algae in VAST amounts. I have left the light off for weeks now while pulling out the hair algae by the handfuls (and turkeybasterfuls). I purchased an Emerald Crab...I think he is on strike b/c I don't ever see him...even at night. I purchased 2 Green Chromis and 2 (I think this is spelled incorrectly but I cannot find the right spelling) KuPang Damsels (I looked up some pics that looked like the ones I have and they were referred to as Sunshine Damsles or Olive Chromis). I have 25 Algae Eating Snails on the way to see if they help too...will have them by Friday.

Any Ideas?

Thank you so very much for any insight/help you wish to give.
:dive2: :rant2: :help:
 
there are a bunch of things you didnt cover, so i have some suggestions as well as questions :)
first off: what type of water are you using? tap water, or even bottled spring water is often a HUGE supplier of unwanted nutrients such as phosphates or nitrates. make sure you are using at LEAST RO. DI or RO/DI is best. but normal RO is okay.
second of all, you say your test is reading, "no phosphates". What type of test is it? if it is a crapy test like some of the red seas which give very general values, haivng "no phosphates" could mean you have a good amount. so what type of test are you using?
as far as your filtration:
are you running carbon or phosban? both will help
a better skimmer will also help.
and why would you take off the biowheel? i have seen some people rant about how bad they are on this site, but IMHO, depending on the TYPE of tank, they are very benificial. a fish only, or pretty much any tank that isnt keeping very nutrient sensitive corals like sps is perfect for a biowheel. People claim that they produce nitrates. But debris is not as likely to get caught in them as bio balls. plus the only way youd have a nitrate issue is if you dont have the proper nitrate cycling bacteria which is often just from an unestablished tank (a tank with CC and little live rock doesnt help either) or if you would otherwise have an amonia issue...
also: dont bother turning off your lights to fight algae. the reason why the alge is there is because there is a lot of excess nutrients in your tank. when you turn the lights off, all you do is release the nutrients that the algae absorbed BACK INTO the tank so the cycle will just start over unless you literaly killed every spore or stalk.
5 small fish in a 29 gallon is starting to push it, but isnt way over the top. how much and how often are you feeding these fish? cutting back a little would also help.
also, keep up those water changes to try to remove some of the excess nutrients and keep pulling out everythign you can
and i think that is jsut about all i was thinking?

PS: that yellow tang still isnt in site until you get a larger tank ;)
 
hey CM,

Being fairly new into SW I am not sure how much i can help but i will do my best. There is alot of information on this site not to mention all of the experience here. A good thread (sticky at top of marine newbie forum) for cleaning crews is the following:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84749

I would recommend adding hermit crabs as well to your tank. I have a 28 gal bow front and have around 15 snails, 25 various hermits, 2 ocellaris clowns, 2 yellowtail damsels, and 1-black and yellow blennie and have no problems with either bubble or hair algae.

The emerald crab is suppose to eat the bubble algae from what i have read in other threads so eventually he should start to control that.

I would definitely add more Live rock and think about getting rid of the crushed coral.

I agree with Fishieness that using RO/DI water is best. As far as the bio wheel, I have no experience with it but i would suggest the same with regards to carbon or phosban filtration and running it on your system to help filter the phosphates and other nutrients out that algae feeds on.

The other thing is how much is your water turnover rate? Didn't see any mention of power heads. If you aren't turning your water over at least 10X or more and/or have dead spots, algae will grow faster from what i have read.

Hopefully you won't ditch your tank! I am sure once you get things under control and start enjoying it, you will be glad you didn't!

Rich
 
besides the mandarin what other fish do you have in there? I believe you stated you killed the others.....???

if the only fish is the mandarin then maybe adding a lawnmower blennie would help mow down that hair........though you would have to supplement his diet later....
 
I used tap water with AmQuel in it to do water changes (I will start to use RO as I have learned tap water is not good to use). As far as the brand of test for the Phosphates I don't know, I took it to LFS to have Phos tested as I do not have a test for Phos, Calcium, and Iron yet (comming soon). I do not have any powerheads in the tank, richc_120 said something about algae growing in 'dead-spots' of the tank...this makes sense to me b/c the majority of the hair algae is growing smack dab in the middle of the tank on a piece of broken-bowl shelf-like looking live rock. What kind/size of powerheads should I get? The only fish in the tank now are Mandarin Goby (Green Target) 2 Kupang Damselfish (spelling...unsure). I purchased 2 Green Chromis at the same time as the Kupang (apx 2 weeks ago) as per the tech @ LFS b/c i wasn't able to keep fish alive...he recommended 'cheapies-but-hearty' to help get the tank going. As far as the biowheel, I will put it back on as per fishieness' information. I am running carbon throught the protien skimmer and the filter. I tried to put some pics in here and apparantly not smart enough...will keep trying. I appreciate all of the information...I just want to clairfy with regards to water changes...10% weekly NO TAP WATER...use RO...if I do not hear any different this is what I will be doing. Again, thanks
 
alright...I am giving up for now....if someone really wants to see the pics I could e-mail them to you....otherwise I will wait until I get a response from AC telling me how to insert pics....(Big Sigh...)
 
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Hello cm and welcome to ac!
The first thing I would do is take your water to your lfs and get a second opinion on your params. Also consider replaicing your light bulbs as often times an older bulb will encourage an algal bloom.
You should get rid of your crushed coral and after your params settle out add more fully cured live rock. You want from 1 to 1.5 lbs per gallon for proper water filtration. I'd also get a variety snails, red reef crabs etc. I'd make sure that my params were in line before you add anything else.
You might also consider getting rid of the damsels they might be a large part of the reason that you are loosing fish. They are very aggresive in general and a big pita. I'd also loose the bio wheel all it does is produce nitrate if your tank isn't over stocked your live rock should be able to do more than enough to denitrify. I like to keep things simple.

I'd also replaice the carbon you are using on a frequent basis as it will only take so much material out of the water before it starts leaching. Your tank needs at least 10 x per hour water turn over more is better. You will be better off getting a few smaller powerheads than one larger.

Anyway welcome to ac
hope this helps
Max
 
I feel your pain. If you look at the post I put up the other day called "Converting to a Fish Only" or something like that, I have pictures of my tank full of bubble algae. I have since learned a few things. One is that bubble algae is really hard to get rid of, the only way of really getting rid of it is to pick it off by hand. My tank is full of Emerald crabs and that obviously isn't working. Second, too many nutrients feeds this algae (or all algae for that matter) I replaced my protein skimmer 2 days ago and I can already see a difference. I plan on spending this weekend doing a water change and picking out bubbles. I had to admit to myself that my lack of maintenance was really the problem. I wanted an easy solution to my problem, there is none, it will take work on my part. Another thing I found out is that the brownish red algae you described is actually better than the green stuff. Everyone who has a saltwater tank will experience that bloom when they start up there tank, it is part of the cycle, you did nothing to promote that. What I learned is that by adding a controlled amount of silicate to your tank can actually cause that brown algae (Diatoms) to form and help starve out the green algae's which are harder to scrape from the the aquarium glass and if you do it just right, you will hardly be able to notice the brown algae. Here is a link to the article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2005/tips.html
I found it interesting and may try it. Good luck with your tank and don't give up just yet. I will try and post my progress, I have renewed faith that I am going to get my tank back under control.

Cheryl
 
Here is my advice:

1) you have too many fish too soon. Fish shouldn't be introduced at least until your cycle is done, then add them slowly so your biological filter can catch up.

2)Tap water is bad in a saltwater aquarium (at least 99% of the time). It contains phospates, dissolved solids, etc etc. These are all things that are detrimental to a marine aquarium. They cause algae blooms and the flouride/chlorine are bad for fish. Get water from a local fish store that has a reverse osmosis/de-ionized water, or even from a grocery store that has one of those RO/DI stations that you can fill your own container with.

3)Water movement is key. Most of your filtration is done by the live rock. For this to be executed properly there must be movement in the water. Get a powerhead or two. One wants a turnover rate anywhere from 15x(FOWLR)-40x(sps reef), so look into a powerhead or two that will give you about 250-350 gal/hr water movement. (Don't forget that the skimmer and filter move the water too. Also, it's recommend to have about 1lb of rock per gallon, so if you can throw another 5 pounds in there and it'll help with filtration. (just make sure the rock comes from an existing system so it doesn't cause another cycle in your tank)

4)Crushed coral is your enemy. Get rid of most (or all) of the crushed coral you have in there and swap it out for some sand. The sand is a much better buffer for the tank and your snails/crabs will thank you for it too.

There's still more, but start with those things and wait a week or two. Come back with some results for us all to see how it's working in a couple of weeks. Remember that it takes time, and immediate results almost never happen in this hobby. If your tank has as much algae as you say, it'll take a little time for it to stop reproducing, then it'll slowly die off.
 
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thanks

Alright I am going to the LFS today to pick up powerheads (I am thinking 2 but I will talk to owner and get his opinion), live sand, and more live rock...and something to kill Aptasia (spelling?) I heard you could use lemon juice but as a newbee I would like to stick to items marketed for this specific purpose *(they have guarantees too....)* I appreciate everyones' help and as soon as I can figure out how to get a photo posted in here I will share pics and I will get back to you guys with updates...thanks again.
 
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