Bottom feeders

[OrionGirl]

You also are assuming that everyone who reads your comments will not jump to a conclusion and decide that kuhlie's are fine with just fish waste. I've seen it happen entirely too often, and no matter how right you may be in saying you didn't say that, I care more about the results. Someone reads that, thinks they can add kuhlie's and never clean the bottom again (see how the assumptions pile up?).

I don't have a problem with any of the posts...I just want the FULL answer, rather than the simple one that will lead people astray.

 

[TetraBotia]

You also are assuming that everyone who reads your comments will not jump to a conclusion and decide that kuhlie's are fine with just fish waste. I've seen it happen entirely too often, and no matter how right you may be in saying you didn't say that, I care more about the results. Someone reads that, thinks they can add kuhlie's and never clean the bottom again (see how the assumptions pile up?).

I don't have a problem with any of the posts...I just want the FULL answer, rather than the simple one that will lead people astray.

Respectfully, that is not logical.

First, unless we are talking about a tank that has ONLY Kühli's in it, we will not have to worry about them not getting something other than fish waste. They will surely without fail get excess food. And in a tank without other fish, one surely would assume that the owner would be smart enough to feed them, since there are no fish producing fecal matter.

Secondly, I never vaccum my tank. Never. That has to do with a lot of things, but part of the reason is the Kühli's. Part of the reason is plants. Part of the reason is snails. Part of the reason is I don't keep fish that are high waste producers. And part of it is probably also Amano shrimp and corys. So yes, some people who handle their tank in a certain way can make that assumption that Kühi's are part of the equation for that kind of success in keeping a tank bottom naturally healthy and part of the food chain.

Now, that being said... if I took out the snails (MTS) and the Kühli's, I bet you dollars to doughnuts I would have to vacuum... not often mind you, but I know I would see a buildup. I have about 4-5 Kühlis in an area of about 5 sq. ft. About 1 Kühli per square foot.

But quite honestly you are backtracking from your claim that no fish eat "waste", from Kühli's don't eat waste, then into an explanation that is fraught with false assumptions that you made and then tried to imply that I had stated them, and now it is down to stating that you were just trying to make sure nobody got the wrong information or made the wrong assumption.

I stand by the veracity of what I said. Your intent was not to clarify, as you did not posit "clarifying" remarks, but rather contentious ones which you later have not been able to defend or substantiate.

It is a far cry from "Kühlis don't fish eat waste. No fish does." to "well, let's just clarify that you probably should not expect a Kühli to take care of all the fish waste, or that you will be able to stop cleaning your tank the way you have been. And make sure to toss them some sinking carnivore pellets from time to time in the dark..."

One is clarifying, one is an argument.

Just to clarify...

 

[OrionGirl]

Sigh. Whatever. You want to argue, go ahead. You are making as many assumptions as you're accusing me of, and I don't really care.

 

[FreddytheFish]

had the luck to see the amusing if somewhat disgusting display of my fish eating waste before it even, um, "separated" from another fish's body.

Yeah...pretty much all fish do that...theyll think its food, eat it, then spit it out... :huh: (not the smartest of the animals, but i still love 'em. )

 

[TetraBotia]

Sigh. Whatever. You want to argue, go ahead. You are making as many assumptions as you're accusing me of, and I don't really care.

I will let my statements speak for themselves. Remember, I was not the one who made false statements here, and then tried to cover them instead of retracting them.

Which statments were false?
1. Kuhli loaches do not eat fish wastes. No fish does. (Yes- many fish DO.)
2. Detritus can be any number of things, including plant matter, dead fish, or bits of food that other fish aren't eating. It does NOT mean fish waste.(It in fact includes fish waste- sorry)
3. The point I am making is that no fish will remove wastes from the tank, and that it is erroneous to assume that because some fish go through the waste searching for undigested food actually consume and can live off that waste. (I am quite sure that Kühli's could live quite a while off of nutrient rich detritus...)

And in closing, I would simply add that you said : "I just want the FULL answer, rather than the simple one that will lead people astray."

Considering you want full answers, and not those that would be misleading, you would be well advised to be sure that your responses are "accurate" before you worry about the "completeness" of others.

 

[Flower1982]

Goldfish can survive in nearly completely frozen water. Unless that 80 would freeze solid, I would not worry about the Goldfish outside over the winter.

No on the shrimp, with those fish, IMO.

Oto's mostly want algae. I don't think they go much for old fish food, but I sure don't have any evidence to back that up.

There are pygmy cories... A Kuhli Loach or two might do a great job for you too, as they not only would eat much of the food that hits the bottom (they come out mostly at night though, if they have places to hide during the day), but Kuhli's also eat detritus (fancy name for poop)... and with your tank inhabitants, you probably have a bit of that.

The container pond I have it a galvinezed (sorry I can't spell lol) tub. I'm pretty sure it would freeze solid. I do have an extra 10 gallon tank that's empty. I'd just have to get a heater, filter and hood for it. If I had to I could set up another tank somewhere and put some fish in there. Of course I have no idea where i'd set up another tank But I don't want to do that unless I have to. I might have my mom ask a few people at her work if they want the swwordtails. There are a few people that work at my mom's school that have fish tanks. So maybe they would want them. If I get rid of the swordtails I'd keep the rest of the fish. So that would leave the betta fish, and two mollies. Hopefully someone would want the swordtails.

 

[TetraBotia]

The container pond I have it a galvinezed (sorry I can't spell lol) tub. I'm pretty sure it would freeze solid.

I did not look at your profile, so forgive me if this question is answered by that...

... but what area of the country do you live in? It takes some really cold weather for a long time to freeze something like that solid to the core.

And you could always run some kind of heater in it. Or, you might even keep it from freezing with a power head moving the water, or strong aeration.

 

[RockabillyChick]

i have a 150 gallon above-ground pond made with a wall of broken contrete, and its never frozen. we float a trough heater in it (sold at farm and ranch supply stores for horse and cattle water troughs) and it stays a nice 40 degrees or so. we've never lost a single goldfish or koi to cold.

 

[TetraBotia]

i have a 150 gallon above-ground pond made with a wall of broken contrete, and its never frozen. we float a trough heater in it (sold at farm and ranch supply stores for horse and cattle water troughs) and it stays a nice 40 degrees or so. we've never lost a single goldfish or koi to cold.

Yes- trough heater was what I had in mind- my inlaws keep horses in Utah, and it gets just frigid there...

I guess my point is, if she/he wants to keep the goldfish outside, it is a small change/accomodation, especially since she/he has an 80 gallon tub to put them in.

I am guessing there is a personal affection here, which is understandable, but heightens concerns.
:thm:

 

[Flower1982]

Yes- trough heater was what I had in mind- my inlaws keep horses in Utah, and it gets just frigid there...

I guess my point is, if she/he wants to keep the goldfish outside, it is a small change/accomodation, especially since she/he has an 80 gallon tub to put them in.

I am guessing there is a personal affection here, which is understandable, but heightens concerns.
:thm:

I live in Pennsylvania and it does get pretty cold here in the winter sometimes. Tonight it's about 27 degrees outside. Sometime this week the low temp is going to be in the teens. I didn't want to take the chance of letting the goldfish outside during the winter and then have them freeze to death. I'm sure you think I'm stupid for caring about my goldfish to get a bigger tank for them just so they can be brought inside for the winter andfor not trying to winter them over in the 80 gallon containter pond.