Hi, Been away for a while, sorry for the delay in answering your questions. I snorkel for all my specimens...just below surface to 6 feet deep..No quarantine as the collection is in the tank within an hour or two and the water is natural seawater collected from the same site,(same ph,salinity etc)..artificial light in tank,some sunlight in some areas but makes no difference as the corallimorphs have no simbiatic algae...VERY IMPORTANT to have a good protein skimmer,high water movement and a chiller to keep tank at 14 to 16 celsius...I feed regularly with powdered krill/brineshrimp and marine flakes. I'm very happy to answer any more questions, it's a great and misunderstood side of our hobby that few people try...good luck giving it a go!!
Check out this cold marine reef tank
- Thread starter coldmarine007
- Start date
Temperate Tank Filtration
A) Subsand Filtration: I am getting a lot of conflicting information about filtration on this subject.
My own inclination is to use a fairly deep sand profile (10 to 15 cm) with as many airlifts as I can get away with (i.e. Maximum flow rate through the sand column to minimize the formation of anaerobic cells).
You are the master, having had such brilliant success with your system. What is your recommended approach?
B) Sump: I am lucky enough to have plenty of space to install a large sump so am planning to have a three-stage system:
Of course, the sump system would be in addition to power filtration and a protein-skimmer. I had thought of installing UV as a finishing stage but would that be overkill?
Cheers,
Laurie
Thank you for your very informative reply.
A) Subsand Filtration: I am getting a lot of conflicting information about filtration on this subject.
My own inclination is to use a fairly deep sand profile (10 to 15 cm) with as many airlifts as I can get away with (i.e. Maximum flow rate through the sand column to minimize the formation of anaerobic cells).
You are the master, having had such brilliant success with your system. What is your recommended approach?
B) Sump: I am lucky enough to have plenty of space to install a large sump so am planning to have a three-stage system:
- Bio-Aereation: High flow rate - Spray fountains flowing onto tilted filter cloth panels (water flows across face of panels) with Growlux lighting above to promote algal growth.
- Bio Only: Lower flow rate - filter cloth panels hung vertically with water flowing horizontally through the panels - more Growlux on all sides.
- Live Rock: I am not sure about this stage because I somewhat question its real value.
Of course, the sump system would be in addition to power filtration and a protein-skimmer. I had thought of installing UV as a finishing stage but would that be overkill?
Cheers,
Laurie
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Undergravel filtration has fallen out of fashion, I think because it tends to trap a lot of junk, which rots, or requires frequent cleaning, or both. Maybe that reputation is undeserved, but maybe not. Fabric panels have a similar reputation, but so to bio-balls, which I use, so do your homework and make your own call. I'll tell you about my temperate marine filtration, for what it's worth.
I have a Southern California temperate marine system, with a lot of strawberry anemone, and an octopus. When you're designing the filtration system for a temperate tank, realize that you will be feeding the system MUCH more than a tropical reef system. Your system needs to be able to remove as much waste, and uneaten food, as possible, before it has a chance to break down, which is why an over-sized skimmer is important. Will you be feeding planktonic food to your tank? If so, you'll need to allow that food to stay in suspension in your water long enough for filter feeders to get it out, so mechanical filtration, and skimming, needs to be turned off or circumvented during feeding. I use 6 gallons of bio balls in a wet/dry filter for a 60 gallon tank. I have a pre-filter (floss) which I change every few days, and a skimmer. The bio balls can easily keep up with the heavy feedings and waste, but I have two problems with my filtration:
1) My skimmer is undersized, and so a lot of waste is processed (instead of being removed from the system before it breaks down) which lowers my PH. I have to buffer my water often to keep the PH up.
2) All of my bio filtration is aerobic, so there are no anaerobic bacteria around to remove the nitrate produced by the aerobic bacteria. I need to add a Remote Deep Sand Bed, or something to reduce nitrates.
Live rock has the advantage of housing both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria, but I had three concerns about it:
1) I worried that I couldn't fit enough of it in my tank to handle the heavy bio load (maybe it could handle it, I just don't know)
2) Tropical live rock wouldn't look natural in my Southern California tank, and local ocean rocks aren't porous, so provide no filtration.
3) Live rock is expensive compared to bio-balls, which many people give away of sell cheap on Craigslist.
I have to turn off my return pump, and skimmer, for 40 minutes twice per day when I feed Cyclopeeze to my tank, so that the wet/dry pre-filter doesn't trap all the food before it can be eaten. Even then some food is trapped in the filter, where it breaks down and pollutes the water until I change the filter.
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Temperate Tank Filtration (Continued)
As to living rocks in the sump, I am surprised that nobody bit. As I understand it the real value they add is in enhancing the nitrogen cycle.
A suggestion that might be worth checking on: The garden nursery trade use "lavarock" a lot for landscaping because it is easy to break into different shapes and relatively light to handle. It might be worth checking some of the landscaping suppliers in your area to see if they carry lavarock. The vessicles (holes) in the rock would greatly increase its surface area for enhanced algal growth.
Chemically, lavarock should be fairly benign, though I would flush it well before using it. Lavarock is essentially volcanic glass, which has a very low reactivity, making it ideal for aquarium applications. It would be worth asking, though if it has been chemically treated in any way - I very much doubt it but better safe than sorry.
I have been wondering about using furnace filter batting (the spun poly stuff you can buy in sheets at a building supply store) for filter media. Is there anything about it that would suggest this would be a dumb move? While we are on the topic, has anyone used household cartridge water filters (again, available from a building supplier) for aquarium filtration? They tend to be larger and cheaper than similar product from the aquarium trade.
Any feedback would be interesting.
Cheers,
LM Thomson
Thank you, CW, for your thorough reply. I suspect that I will stick with undersand filtration. I agree with you, maintenance can be a handful but the added biological filtration is a plus.
As to living rocks in the sump, I am surprised that nobody bit. As I understand it the real value they add is in enhancing the nitrogen cycle.
A suggestion that might be worth checking on: The garden nursery trade use "lavarock" a lot for landscaping because it is easy to break into different shapes and relatively light to handle. It might be worth checking some of the landscaping suppliers in your area to see if they carry lavarock. The vessicles (holes) in the rock would greatly increase its surface area for enhanced algal growth.
Chemically, lavarock should be fairly benign, though I would flush it well before using it. Lavarock is essentially volcanic glass, which has a very low reactivity, making it ideal for aquarium applications. It would be worth asking, though if it has been chemically treated in any way - I very much doubt it but better safe than sorry.
I have been wondering about using furnace filter batting (the spun poly stuff you can buy in sheets at a building supply store) for filter media. Is there anything about it that would suggest this would be a dumb move? While we are on the topic, has anyone used household cartridge water filters (again, available from a building supplier) for aquarium filtration? They tend to be larger and cheaper than similar product from the aquarium trade.
Any feedback would be interesting.
Cheers,
LM Thomson
This is getting off topic, and I can't tell if you are trolling, or just very old school, or fresh water/pond. Either way, I think it's time to stop talking about filtration on this thread.
And what, pray-tell, is the topic? Our New Zealand friend knows that he has a fine system and has offered to share his knowledge.
A mutual admiration society is of little value, though you might disagree with me.
As to the validity of my filtration theories, I am looking at these systems as a technologist with an open mind, which we all do, I presume. If you want to learn and debate, good. Otherwise....
A mutual admiration society is of little value, though you might disagree with me.
As to the validity of my filtration theories, I am looking at these systems as a technologist with an open mind, which we all do, I presume. If you want to learn and debate, good. Otherwise....
Some interesting thoughts there regarding filtration...my set-up goes against the grain in many ways and would both surprise and puzzle many experienced aquarists, most of whom would regard the way I do things as wrong! As far as I'm concerned the proof is in the pudding.
I have a shallow sand bed....no more than half inch max...I have no sump,but run 1 Eheim wet/dry and 3 Eheim large canisters...also a small Eheim full of seagel. These are cleaned every 3 months and do a fantastic job.This also means that when I'm away on business I have no worries regarding possible sump flooding etc. I feed the powdered food twice a day but NEVER turn off my filtration as the powder is quickly consumed (there are literally thousands of polyps, plus live shrimp/krill/hermits.etc). The skimmer is a hang-on Red Sea for up to 1000 litres,(my tank is 1000 litres) which I've had since my tropical marine days and does a fantastic job.
All my rock goes straight into the tank,although I do scrape off some sponges that I know won't do well..they are scraped carefully on collection and go back into the sea..some of the rock is volcanic, our harbour sits in an ancient volcanic crater so your idea of lavarock is a good one.
Don't forget though that I have all the advantages of being able to collect myself and can replicate conditions pretty accurately.
The bottom line is that we gain experience as the years go by...and know what works in terms of what we want from a tank...I kept a tropical marine system for many years before giving the temperate side a go and wasn't sure I'd succeed....the tank has really advanced my knowledge of what can be done and very much goes against the grain in many areas...particularly when it comes to filtration but it has exceeded all expectations and looks every bit as beautiful as a well stocked tropical marine tank.
