Cherry Shrimp help

[KayPru]

I'm having trouble keeping cherry shrimp and have tried a million different things to figure out what exactly is going on in my tank. I have some specific questions but I'm very new to the aquarium hobby so any advice would be awesome

Here's my set-up: I have a 10 Gallon aquarium with live plants(java fern, java moss, amazon sword and some hornwort), fluval shrimp stratum, five amano shrimp, two nerite snails, and a school of ember tetras. I have a testing kit and test the water once or twice a week and I do 10% water changes once a week. My pH is around a 6.8-7.0, the stratum keeps it low. My heater, which is a 50watt Tetra submersible heater, keeps the tank around a 78º-80º. I feed the shrimp algae wafers occasionally and feed the ember tetras a different food. I dose the aquarium once a week with the appropriate amount of the following:
API CO2 Booster
API Leaf Zone Fertilizer
Seachem Flourish
Aquavitro mineralize

Some Specific Questions:
I use an API pH down to lower my tap water pH, would it be better if I used bottled/jugged water from the store? If I did that, what products would I need in addition to the ones I already have to make it fish/plant friendly?
My ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels are usually safe and if they approach dangerous levels I do an extra water change. My gH is a 6-9. My kH is 0, could I mix Seachem alkaline buffer to increase this? And would it increase my pH too much? Could I just use the API pH down to offset it or would that just negate the effects? Would there be a better product?

The cherry shrimp kept dying and I only have one left(what a trooper xD), I've attempted this several time and repurchased shrimp from different stores thinking that maybe petco shrimp are just bad and the LFS ones would fare better but they died one by one over the course of a month. They seem to die most frequently after water changes. So before I attempt it again I figured I would get some help.

I am also totally willing to change to any kind of hardier shrimp that will breed in freshwater and is appropriate for my tank setup.

Thank you!
~Kayla

 

[Matthew C.]

Since your oh is rather low 6.8 -7.0 why witluld you want to lower the pH even more....doing so can cause your tank to crash or to start cycling again. If you need to raise the pH, or lower it, don't use chemical ingredients....you can use crushed coral to raise it...it goes inside the filter in a media bag, and u only need to replenish it when it completely breaks down which can be a very long time. To lower it, u can use driftwood or peat...but stay away from those chemicals, using them can lead to a lot of other problems....find a n atural solution

 

[Matthew C.]

Avoid using pH up and down chemicals....both can have a disasterous affect on your tank. Why is the pH 6.8 -7.? If you need to raise pH use crushed coral or araganite, to lower use driftwood....stay away from chemicals. Too low a pH can also allow your tank to crash or recycle again.

 

[KayPru]

I only use the pH down to quickly lower my tap water pH to match the pH in my tank because our local water has a much higher pH and I don't want to shock my fish. I never use it in the tank and test the water I'm using for the water change before I put it in. If I start using RO water from the store then it won't be necessary anymore.

I do have driftwood and cholla wood in the tank and I will definitely look into the crushed coral! Thank you! Will the coral maintain my tank pH at 7? Or will it bring it higher?

 

[myswtsins]

I too had trouble with shrimp for many years and tried everything under the sun to get them to survive. So I know where you're coming from. I currently have a 58g tank with a thriving RCS colony so here's what I've learned.

The MOST important thing about keeping shrimp is stability, not pH, hardness, temperature or anything else. They do not take changes well at all. So first of all you are playing with the water parameters a lot, adding all those ferts and chemicals and doing different things to your source water before adding but not after etc. Your KH being 0 is an issue because without that buffering capacity the pH changes easily and rapidly. You need to find a more stable, simple solution, which we will get to after some more investigating. Less is more with shrimp, less food, smaller water changes (WC) but more frequently, less additives, less nitrates etc etc etc.

You are adding a lot of stuff that does contain small amounts of copper. It is still debated how much copper is deadly to shrimp, personally I think it varies from tank to tank as every tank is unique. But adding all those small amounts together could be harmful although I don't think this is the main cause of your deaths just a possible contributor.

Questions!

What are your water parameters without all these additives and the stratum? If you don't already know then take a sample of your tap water in a shallow dish and let it sit out overnight and then test it with every test you have.

You say when ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reach dangerous levels you do bigger water changes (big WCs are a no-no as we just learned) but what are those levels exactly? Ammonia and nitrites need to be a solid 0 at ALL times for shrimp. How long has the tank been setup? Did it go through a proper nitrogen cycle? How many ember tetras do you have? A 10g is a great size for a shrimp tank but you have a community tank going with fish, 2 kinds of shrimp and snails, might be bit much to allow that stability we need.

I can see all your efforts to try to correct your problem but sometimes less is more, again. BTW did you try with your straight tap water and have issues and that's how we ended up here?

 

[FreshyFresh]

KayPru, welcome!

Sorry if I missed it, but why such concern with adjusting your pH? Those are pretty forgiving plants you list and really don't need anything special. Same with RCS. My experience with them is they're like cockroaches. Very tough.

I would strongly suggest just working with the pH you have from your tap water.

 

[KayPru]

Originally I tried straight up tap water, the shrimp died, so I bought a testing kit, tried to use RO water but there was rebound from my substrate, replaced that and bought some pH down to correct the tap water for water changes. Then I found out my kH/gH was really weird and that's where I am now. My tap water pH, when tested with the API high pH range is a deep purple color so the tap water is 8.4-8.8 which I though was too high for cherry shrimps, unless I'm mistaken. The plants, driftwood, and stratum all naturally lower the pH eventually to a 6.8-7.0. This is why I've been trying to match the tap water pH with the tank pH via the pH down to prevent too much fluctuation in the parameters.

I'm using the API drop kits to test the water. For kH and gH, the test tubes turn their respective yellow/green after 10/4 drops respectively. I've actually never tested the tap water for kh/gH and wasn't expecting the kH to be so high. The tank water still immediately turns yellow, 12 drops for gH. I will leave a dish out and test the water again tomorrow.

Here's the spread after doing the tests for both the tap and tank just now:
Tap Water(Baton Rouge area):
pH: 8.4-8.8
kH: 100-200ppm
gH: 50-100ppm

Tank Water(additives put in about a week ago):
pH: 6.8-7.2(green blue but not deep blue)
kH: 0-50ppm
gH: 100-200ppm(too high?)

For a few months now I haven't had to do massive water changes, in the beginning I did but there weren't any shrimps in it, just the snails, while my new tank was cycling. I was just clarifying that I do watch those parameters and keep them as low as possible. My current schedule is that I do a 1g change once a week and put in the additives. I always put in the fertilizers and only add the gH stuff if the tests say my gH in the tank is low. I've always considered dangerous levels to be any hint of green on the ammonia test, purple on the nitrite, or orange on the nitrate.

I only have four ember tetras, which I'm aware might not be enough for healthy schooling behavior. I rescued them from a friend and haven't had the chance to get any more. I've been using Aquadvisor's tank stocking calculator to make sure I don't have too many organisms in the tank. I'm most interested in the invertebrates so the tetras have been kind of an after thought.

As for the additives, is there an alternative to the copper containing products? Or should I stop with the additives altogether?

 

[FreshyFresh]

Have you tested the water from the bag you brought the shrimp home in?

In regards to pH, KH and Gh, in most cases there is no 'too high' or 'too low'. Your stock will adapt to your source water and often already have if they came from a local store.

If it's a special breeding project you're after, then sure, pH can need to be specific.

Again, I would stop adding stuff to your tap water other than a good dechlorinator product that detoxes multiple compounds like metals, etc. Metals like copper can be an issue for shrimp.

 

[KayPru]

Okiedokie. I’ll stop with the additives for the next few weeks and see what happens. I went to the LFS and their pH is 7.6-8.0. I'll go back later and have them test my water to double check my tests. Since the water from the store I got the shrimp from is higher anyways, should I just leave the tap pH as it is when I do water changes so it gradually increases my tank pH to match? Then I won't have to add the pH down anymore and the water will be more stable?

 

[dougall]

If there is that big a difference, doing smaller but more frequent water changes will make the change more gradual, and be easier on the shrimp.

But, yes, I would aim to get the shrimp in water straight from the tap.