Clown Loaches: HELP!!!!!

[Serrecko]

Long story short - got 4 from the LFS, checked the water quality until I was convinced it was spot on. Needless to say, 1 died within 24 hours and the other three are not long for this realm. All other fish in the tank (125 gallon) are doing great, as they have been for 6 months.

This kill off has me baffled, totally baffled. I have double checked the water with every known test kit I can get, and I know the first four are gone, but I do hope the next four I get (after more research and testing) will fair better.

So there are a lot of questions I have screaming through my head and it really tears me up when an animal dies. I would appreciate any advice, suggestions or whatever.

The tank is 125 gallons, has the following fish in it:
1 - Pleco
3 - Bala Sharks
2 - Chinese Algae Eaters
2 - Silver Dollars
8 - Tiger Barbs
3 - Black Widow Tetras

It has a part sand bottom and part gravel, a few live plants that are only doing so-so, pH is 6.6-7.2, a canister filter that is cleaned at least every 10 days and 10 gallon water changes about every two weeks. The water is filtered and brought to temp before being added to the tank.

I also have a DIY filter in the tank that is changed about every 10 days as well - mainly to get the larger debris out of the water. Just started running a CO2 tank about 2 weeks ago to try to help the plants a little, the lights are T8 and on a timer giving the fish darkness 9 hours a day.

Anyway.... I really want some Clown Loaches, but I seriously don't want to see more die in the process.

Thanks,
Serrecko

 

[Fozzybear]

uh....to what extent are the filters cleaned? are you using dechlor'd water? how are you doing Co2?

 

[Serrecko]

Thanks for responding.

We have a well, and are not on "city" water so most of the chemicals found in most tap water is not there. I have tested the water right from the tap and it all seems on point.

When I clean the canister filter I normally rinse the sponges in our laundry room sink making sure not to let them touch anything. I then rinse the carbon packs and the the canister itself and have a dedicated sponge I use for that. I make sure the "bio balls" don't get rinsed. I also clean the tubes once a month using the same basic technique. I then take water from a 5 gallon jug that has been warmed up since the last clean with the insertion of a fish tank heater. The water in that 5 gallon jug is run through a reverse osmosis system, then through carbon filters before being put in the jug and held for 10 days. I have 3 of these jugs in various stages of being ready.

Currently my CO2 system is a DIY type. Two liter soda bottle with yeast resting in a 5 gallon bucket with another heater set to 80 degrees to keep it "alive". The gas is put through another two liter bottle to pass the gas through more water before going to a stone in the bottom of the tank.

This whole setup is to get me through till the spring. I am planning on setting up a 10 gallon dirt tank to grow plants and to learn how to better control the inputs at the level before taking the drastic step of dirting the 120 gallon, or better yet, get another 120 gallon and make this an 18 month project.

The wife won't let me build a 500 gallon plywood tank. At least not yet...... that will involve more diamonds I think.

Serrecko

 

[Rbishop]

What are the exact readings on your tank water from a good liquid test kit?

pH GH KH Ammonia Nitrite Nitrate

Same readings on your tap water...? The pH on your tap should sit out overnight in a sgallow dish to gas off first.

Shouldn't be any need to run the water through a RO system...you will be removing a lot of things your tank and plants need to be balanced and buffered correctly.

Your water changes seem way to small for me and loaches will need pristine water IME. I would be doing 30-50% water changes weekly.

WHat canister filter specifically? I don't feel you need to clean the filters as frequently as you are...not until you see their output decreasing significantly.

 

[Alasse]

You are changing 10gal of water out of a 125gal tank every 2 weeks?? That to me does not seem like nearly enough

 

[Serrecko]

Those are both great responses. Here's an update.

When I woke up this morning, the first thing I did was check on the fish. Didn't see any of the Clowns where I last saw them, but did notice one was swimming around as if he/she/it has been there forever. He/She/It is feeding and being a fish. I am waiting to see if the other two come out of the cave that is in the tank. But I digress.

Part of my confusion in this hobby is the wide ranging advice, suggestions and rules of thumbs. I have seen pH settings for Clown Loaches range from 6.2 all the way through 8.0. I have read you should do lots of small water changes, to 30-50% water changes often. I have read the water has to be pristine and running it through a RO procedure helps. So the research I have done, is only making things worse going forward.

We have a whole house RO water treatment system which also has a water softener attached to it. Making me wonder about the salt content of the water at this point as well.

I normally don't write down my test results but think I need to start doing that and to keep it charted and figure out things a bit on my own. I think the research, ideas, suggestions and everything like that is very helpful, but only insofar as using it as the starting point of your own findings. Which is what I will need to start doing.

I am still holding out hope for the other two Clowns too. I will start my testing a little later today and post my findings here and in a logbook or something.

Serrecko

 

[Fozzybear]

here is what i see...

-i only clean my filter media using tank water i've just pulled out of the tank during a water change...anything else even a 1 degree temp change let alone chloronated water can kill off your beneficial bacteria basically forcing you to restart your cycle.
-DIY Co2 shouldn't be producing enough Co2 to kill anybody so i probably wouldn't worry about it.
-there is a large variance in how much water changing is enough/too much...i like to change my water in most of my tanks once a week at about 30-50% but i do change my water in my 50 gallon once every three days because i like it pretty...that being said it can go 3 weeks without a change realistically and has....it just depends...there are allot of things that WORK...the question is how much thriving is going on...i like to aim for thriving so i put in more work.
-make sure you're using a dechlor such a Prime in your water it keeps things happy
-RO water is tricky in a freshwater tank....without many of those minerals your water won't be able to maintain good plant health and can turn acidic easily...frankly I'd not RO. The house softener should be enough...but it is important to check that salinity.
-where are you getting your livestock? if it came from petco the problem very well may not be you...if they came from a reputable vendor who QTs them and such...it probably is...just an important factor to consider.

That is the best i can think of while reading this over...hope it helps

 

[Serrecko]

I just found one more Clown Loach in the tank that seems to be doing okay, not great, but at least it is not dead and looks to be on the road to "recovery".

We have a very good LFS in the town in live in, and they have been around for a long time and are always busy. I know the owners and they are just top notch fish people and always very helpful. They did not have Clowns when I went looking so I went to PetSmart. That is probably where I went wrong. Not that I don't trust what they do, I tend to like to deal with the same person over and over at this location. We got the Silver Dollars and Bala's there and they are doing great.

There isn't much I can do with the RO system in our house, since that is just where I water goes first after coming from the well itself. The CO2 setup is a little more robust than the typical DIY setup. I am using three 2 liter bottles, rubber stopped with check valves and the airstone is about 5 inches long and the bubbles are steady and very very small. I want to get a better diffuser to be better able to control that aspect of the tank.

These Clowns are just driving me crazy..... but all things in time I guess.

Serrecko

 

[fishorama]

Just a guess, but with such small infrequent water changes I bet your nitrates +/or TDS (total dissolved solids including salt from softener) are high. How did you acclimate the loaches? Did you test the lfs water? If there is a big difference in TDS it can cause osmotic shock as the fishes' body tries to adjust to the sudden change.

Acclimation, if the water isn't too different, can be done by adding small amounts of your tank water to the fishes' bag over time, say at least 30-60 minutes. You can also do it in a bucket for larger fish or more time, the bigger the difference the more time.

A quarantine tank is a really good idea & shouldn't "cost" much in terms of jewelry, lol. That would allow you to acclimate even more slowly by adjusting the qt close to the lfs water & changing the water to match yours over weeks. You can also better observe them for any diseases & treat them without exposing your big tank.

You really need to test your tank water & get on a better change schedule, For now I suggest 10% every day or 2 to get it closer to clean without shocking your fish. Then 20% twice weekly or at least 30% a week. You shouldn't need to clean you filter so often...what filter, what size are your fish, how much are you feeding? Once a month cleaning is a lot for most cannisters, many do much less.

 

[Rbishop]

Ditch the RO/soft water..there should be a tap before the water enters them that you can get your tank water from.

Some advice..ie info..out there is talking natural habitat...not what the fish can live in.

Drop looking for some "ideal" pH and concentrate on the tank over all.

"Pristine" doesn't equate to RO water....no ammonia...no nitrates....very low nitrates...visually clear....and acceptable GH/KH/TDS for the buffering and plants do.

Clowns, IME, rarely hide out in caves...constantly exploring....except at night where they may play dead in odd places...very active fish.