Hi
Just a thought! If you say you felt the water warm then that means that it was at or above human temp of 98.6?? Maybe you inadvertently cooked them?? Another thought is that maybe they got an electric shock?
Complete Wipe advice
- Thread starter Bortass
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Just a thought! If you say you felt the water warm then that means that it was at or above human temp of 98.6?? Maybe you inadvertently cooked them?? Another thought is that maybe they got an electric shock?
First off ... you're not an idiot! Things happen. Some we control...some not. Regardless...you're not an idiot! You obviously have been doing something right for a long time.
To me it sounds as if you had a major ammonia spike. The propane situation you just mentioned as well is interesting too. Without water parms, it will really be hard to say for sure.
* EDIT * scratch ammonia spike if your test came back at 0
[scratches head]
To me it sounds as if you had a major ammonia spike. The propane situation you just mentioned as well is interesting too. Without water parms, it will really be hard to say for sure.
* EDIT * scratch ammonia spike if your test came back at 0
[scratches head]
Hmm, ammonia 0 does make me think something suffocated the fish, or they were poisoned by the (even momentary) gas leak. It could be an electric shock I suppose, but wouldn't the water still be electrified? I would think so.
I think I know what you mean by warm. Warmer than ambient temperature - when I touch the water of the tanks now, it seems warm since the ambient temp is 70 degrees right now, and the tanks are all between 75 and 78.
I think I know what you mean by warm. Warmer than ambient temperature - when I touch the water of the tanks now, it seems warm since the ambient temp is 70 degrees right now, and the tanks are all between 75 and 78.
The foam at the top of the water may be relevant. Very rarely have I every had foam in my water, except right after adding some meds on 1 or 2 tanks, even then it dies down quickly. That could be coming from something that wasn't as clean as it was supposed to be from the filter. Possible buffer agent that caused the Ph to rise quickly or add something that was in the SW tank that was absent in the FW tank?
I lost 7 denison barbs and a gold nugget pleco overnight after a water change. Mine was a water main break and way too much chlorine, even though I did overdose the stress coat by 3x the normal rate.
I feel so bad about this. I hope you are able to rebuild it!
I lost 7 denison barbs and a gold nugget pleco overnight after a water change. Mine was a water main break and way too much chlorine, even though I did overdose the stress coat by 3x the normal rate.
I feel so bad about this. I hope you are able to rebuild it!
Sorry for your losses, especially the ones you have had for years.
What did you have for filtration prior to making a W/D? and was it still in operation. I would like to know if you had also tested for nitrite and nitrate. If you used the bio media you may have spiked the nitrate to a level above tolerance.
The 0 ammonia and the 7.4Ph are fine so now you need to start with other possibilities. Many things being asked of you are more of a guess than help but it may spur you into being able to identify what set everything off.
I have used SW equipment in my FW tanks as well with only a light cleaning and were dry before using. I had no trouble by doing it. I am curious about the filter pad that it may have picked up some contaminate if the package was open. If not, then that can be omitted as well.
You can put your mind at ease over the SW equipment simply by checking the SG. Plecos, loaches, and other scaleless fish can't tolerate salt very well at all and if high enough can be toxic.
Good luck on your future and again, my condolences.
What did you have for filtration prior to making a W/D? and was it still in operation. I would like to know if you had also tested for nitrite and nitrate. If you used the bio media you may have spiked the nitrate to a level above tolerance.
The 0 ammonia and the 7.4Ph are fine so now you need to start with other possibilities. Many things being asked of you are more of a guess than help but it may spur you into being able to identify what set everything off.
I have used SW equipment in my FW tanks as well with only a light cleaning and were dry before using. I had no trouble by doing it. I am curious about the filter pad that it may have picked up some contaminate if the package was open. If not, then that can be omitted as well.
You can put your mind at ease over the SW equipment simply by checking the SG. Plecos, loaches, and other scaleless fish can't tolerate salt very well at all and if high enough can be toxic.
Good luck on your future and again, my condolences.
hmm. 16 inches is a lot of fish. It could have caused an ammonia spike that could have killed the more sensitive fish in the tank, which would just start to snowball into disaster. From the sound of it, your tank was a mature, healthy tank, but if you didn't ever test the water it could have been building to to tipping point. Anyone know how long plecos live? It could have just died of old age, which would mean it wasn't your fault at all.
As for the foaming... maybe the pad thing got soap on it somehow, or some other cleaning substance, which would probably kill your fish or destabilize your tank, which could lead to fish deaths.
No markings... could it have been oxygen deficiency? Was everything working when you woke up? I have had oxygen deficiency wipe out a tank in less then 9 hours before, so it could have done the trick.
How big were to fish? And what are the dimensions of the tank?
The salt probably didn't have any affect, unless it was a the kickstart that killed the first fish or something. Honestly, in a tank that big i wouldn't think it would have any affect...
Was there water flow? If there was nothing wrong with the fish then it makes me think they died from suffocation, which would leave no visible marks on the fish.
Now, can you tell me, what was the water circulation before you altered the tank and after you altered the tank? If there is a big difference then that could have been the killer.
First of all, lack of oxygen can be seen in gill coloration, to it would leave an indicator, second, the filter pad you used. is there a chance some insect or sneaky creature could have crawled across it leaving traces of pesticides? You said the pad had been sitting for years, so my suspicion is the filter pad, not the SW gear. Like Ex, i started one tank that used to be nothing but salt, including a power head. The only other thing I would suspect would be in changing out the gear, you may have disturbed a part of the tank that is normally not disturbed and released something from the substrate.
I agree that boiling and rinsing the wood is the way to go. Sorry about the tank crash. Unfortunately, I've had a long time tank crash before and it's always deviating.
Gonna try to answer a bunch of questions from various posts.
I had an emporer 400 and a HOT magnum running. The magnum was used as a micron filter. That one was shut off I think.
The W/D was just a DIY using plastic storage containers. One was used for a year in the SW tank to hold my skimmer. The other was bought new yesterday. Both were washed off prior to use.
The only thing in the W/D was the filter pad. That pad had been sitting out in the open for awhile. SO it could have picked up something.
My SG is 1.00 as expected.
The foam on the filter pad looked like what you'd see where you have fast moving water hit a rock or something in a river. There wasn't alot of it. The water was falling a good 2 feet or so, mixing with air in the drain pipe before hitting the filter pad. So I was attributing this to the fact I was surface skimming and pulling in whatever proteins were floating on top of the water.
I do notice what appears to be a film on the water, in both the sump and display, though it's more obvious in the sump.
I'm on a well and added water to the tank as I always do. I probably added less then 15 gallons overall.
I had the filters and two small PH moving the water, along with alarge airstone. I unplugged 1 small PH to plug in the SEIO and that did created a larger current. The SEIO was located low to help stir up debris that had settled. So it was a pretty significant current change.
I tested CO2 and it was under 10 ppm. SO I have test kits but am too lazy to use them regularly.
Now the first fish that I saw dying was a cherry barb last night and that was as I was installing the SEIO. All the other fish seemed ok. The corys and loaches were just doing their normal things on the bottom.
I meant warm water as in ambient, not like they cooked.
I doubt it's electric shock. My understanding is that electric current can make the fish sick but since they aren't grounded they don't get electrocuted. I did kill all the power today while removing the bodies but I had my hands in the tank last night with all that stuff running.
All the cleaning was done using stuff that's only used for fish tanks.
The gas alarm went off after all the pumps were up and running. I really don't think I have a propane leak. The system has been running almost 2 hours now and nothing...
I didn't stir the substrate and the SEIO didn't really do much to it either. The substrate is sand and gravel. The SEIO did kick up mulm etc.
So my leading guesses are 1) I posioned them with the filter pad. 2) All the mulm that got kicked up allowed it to start consuming more O2 then it did while just laying on the bottom. So they suffocated. 3) Something built up and set off my gas detector but I didn't smell anything and that did them in.
I had an emporer 400 and a HOT magnum running. The magnum was used as a micron filter. That one was shut off I think.
The W/D was just a DIY using plastic storage containers. One was used for a year in the SW tank to hold my skimmer. The other was bought new yesterday. Both were washed off prior to use.
The only thing in the W/D was the filter pad. That pad had been sitting out in the open for awhile. SO it could have picked up something.
My SG is 1.00 as expected.
The foam on the filter pad looked like what you'd see where you have fast moving water hit a rock or something in a river. There wasn't alot of it. The water was falling a good 2 feet or so, mixing with air in the drain pipe before hitting the filter pad. So I was attributing this to the fact I was surface skimming and pulling in whatever proteins were floating on top of the water.
I do notice what appears to be a film on the water, in both the sump and display, though it's more obvious in the sump.
I'm on a well and added water to the tank as I always do. I probably added less then 15 gallons overall.
I had the filters and two small PH moving the water, along with alarge airstone. I unplugged 1 small PH to plug in the SEIO and that did created a larger current. The SEIO was located low to help stir up debris that had settled. So it was a pretty significant current change.
I tested CO2 and it was under 10 ppm. SO I have test kits but am too lazy to use them regularly.
Now the first fish that I saw dying was a cherry barb last night and that was as I was installing the SEIO. All the other fish seemed ok. The corys and loaches were just doing their normal things on the bottom.
I meant warm water as in ambient, not like they cooked.
I doubt it's electric shock. My understanding is that electric current can make the fish sick but since they aren't grounded they don't get electrocuted. I did kill all the power today while removing the bodies but I had my hands in the tank last night with all that stuff running.
All the cleaning was done using stuff that's only used for fish tanks.
The gas alarm went off after all the pumps were up and running. I really don't think I have a propane leak. The system has been running almost 2 hours now and nothing...
I didn't stir the substrate and the SEIO didn't really do much to it either. The substrate is sand and gravel. The SEIO did kick up mulm etc.
So my leading guesses are 1) I posioned them with the filter pad. 2) All the mulm that got kicked up allowed it to start consuming more O2 then it did while just laying on the bottom. So they suffocated. 3) Something built up and set off my gas detector but I didn't smell anything and that did them in.
Since the filter pad was out in the open for a long duration I would suspect that it picked up aerosols and other particulates that float around freely in the air. Filtering through that would add a concentration to your water. Enough to kill fish is a tough call though. If your washer/dryer is down there as well and you or your wife uses a spray pre-treatment, I suppose it would be possible.
An Emperor 400 is too little for a tank that size, but you said it has been working for you. (I use 2 of them on a 90).
To be honest, I doubt you will ever identify the real cause, sad to say. At least you have a pocketful of possibilities to work from when you set it back up.
Again, sorry for your losses.
An Emperor 400 is too little for a tank that size, but you said it has been working for you. (I use 2 of them on a 90).
To be honest, I doubt you will ever identify the real cause, sad to say. At least you have a pocketful of possibilities to work from when you set it back up.
Again, sorry for your losses.
