Do you care that your hobby is killing ancient environments
- Thread starter Preposterous
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Actually aquarium keepers are a large threat to reefs. Look up dynamite fishing, or cyanide fishing for some examples. Fish are often caught by people below the poverty line through ways that we would would not agree with if we saw them, then sold to companies where the majority of them die. Then the healthy ones end up in our fish tanks.
While I do not think aquarium keepers are the biggest threat to coral reefs. In most cases we are certainly hurting them.
However, a certain number of species a strong case can be made for keeping them in captivity, however I have noticed that many people interested in marine fish often are not as interested in breeding them as freshwater hobbyists.
Not that freshwater hobbyists are entirely blameless, often fish are caught through equally harmful methods (such as poisoning (especially with fish such as oto cats)) but often freshwater hobbyists are usually more interested in breeding thier fish in home aquariums (notably fish like Ameca spledens and some others only exist in captivity now).
Anyway my view if its wild caught at least make and effort to try and pursue breeding it in your aquarium so you can prevent harm to aquatic environments (fresh or saltwater).
While I do not think aquarium keepers are the biggest threat to coral reefs. In most cases we are certainly hurting them.
However, a certain number of species a strong case can be made for keeping them in captivity, however I have noticed that many people interested in marine fish often are not as interested in breeding them as freshwater hobbyists.
Not that freshwater hobbyists are entirely blameless, often fish are caught through equally harmful methods (such as poisoning (especially with fish such as oto cats)) but often freshwater hobbyists are usually more interested in breeding thier fish in home aquariums (notably fish like Ameca spledens and some others only exist in captivity now).
Anyway my view if its wild caught at least make and effort to try and pursue breeding it in your aquarium so you can prevent harm to aquatic environments (fresh or saltwater).
Cyanide is one of the cases I stated as well. My point was not to say reef euthusiasts are not compelely guilt free on the topic, just that its up to all of us to educate ourselves and steer clear of places that sell living creatures caught by those methods. I think given the choice, most hobbyists prefer tank-raised and aquacultered as the specimens are hardier and more accustomed to the aquarium environment.
Yes a lot more FW hobbyist like to breed, particularly live-bearers. However I know quite a few scenarios in which it results in an over stocked tank, deformities brought on my inbreeding, and can still result in poor overall health for the fish.
I think there are detrimental effects on the environment from both forms of aquarium keeping. Some more prominent than others. There was recently an article in the National Geographic citing areas where freshwater fish natural to their locations have been nearly wiped out, either intentionally to stock the waters with more fisherman-friendly fish or by the introduction of non-native species. Oscars are a great FW example of this. Oscars originate in south america, in small rivers that connect to the Amazon. Because of irresponible FW owners, they now thrive in certain areas of Florida.
So if anything can be said, it is this. Do research, be responsible as possible.
When it comes to domesticating wild animals or recreating their habitats, it always comes at a price. The price paid by the environment can be limited through education, but not eradicated.
This goes for both FW and SW owners, so don't attempt to cruxify one without first taking a good glance at your own form of the fishkeeping hobby.
Fish caught using dynamite fishing or cyanide fishing do not survive long after capture even if they reach the hobbyist. I do not know that these practices have stopped but I am fully aware that no fish I've seen in my LFS was collected using those methods. Those fish are dying and it is evident, and they don't sell well at all once dead. There is no money in dead fish, only losses. in a hobby directed at keeping live fish I would try to believe that those in the supply chain try their utmost to keep as many alive as possible, each fish is money to them.
Let me give you an example: lets say the business is a clothing store importing its clothing from poor countries. now if they get a shipment of clothes that is all torn up and falling apart, will they go back and buy more from that supplier? no, they'll find another. Will that supplier lose out? yes. If they want to keep getting orders from the clothing store they are not going to ship them bad clothes. now lets say they are stuck with that shipment of bad clothes and decide to put them out for sale, will people buy them? no, and the store will lose money. this can be applied to any business where goods are sold, wether they be clothes, cars, books or even fish.
I would thus assume that capture techniques have changed to less invasive methods. I do fully believe that most of the people out collecting fish for the commercial aquarium industry see this as their livelihood and don't go about wantonly destroying it.
I also like to see JasonO that you have no SW experience, if you'd be in the SW forums a bit more, you'd see we SW aquarists truly care about the husbandry and well-being of our tanks. And since livestock is rather expensive on this side of the hobby, we prefer that it stays alive
Wow.
All my fish I'm sure are extremely happy, however I'm also sure that they would of preferred to have stayed in the ocean, that is if they could of survived without being eaten or injured out there in the big wide world that we assume would be so much better for them, ecosystem and all that.
However to play devils advocate how could a glass box for a fish a hutch for a rabbit or a cage for a bird be any substitute for freedom, taking away the convenience of a timely meal and the safety of a well thought out environment.
My brother-in-law is a deepseadiver a ROV pilot and when he was off shore near Vietnam he said the sea was lifeless, I don't think that the Japanese put all those fishes in tanks!.
Education is what is needed not oppressive laws.
Thanks for your replies OP
All my fish I'm sure are extremely happy, however I'm also sure that they would of preferred to have stayed in the ocean, that is if they could of survived without being eaten or injured out there in the big wide world that we assume would be so much better for them, ecosystem and all that.
However to play devils advocate how could a glass box for a fish a hutch for a rabbit or a cage for a bird be any substitute for freedom, taking away the convenience of a timely meal and the safety of a well thought out environment.
My brother-in-law is a deepseadiver a ROV pilot and when he was off shore near Vietnam he said the sea was lifeless, I don't think that the Japanese put all those fishes in tanks!.
Education is what is needed not oppressive laws.
Thanks for your replies OP
well i dont have the time to read all of these long posts but i feel that this guy, just wanted to make us go into an up roar as it was already stated, and i belive it has worked just about all the top posters have chimed in with compelling arguments from what i read but the person who started this thread needs to realize that alot of corals and fish are aquacultured, i wonder if he has a problem with what the beef industry is doing to the environment?
There is no question to me whether people here care about the environment, even withstanding sarcasm. Building and caring for a reef in your own home makes an orgasm seem dull. But, what do you really think the percentages are between serious hobbyists and people who buy from wherever to build something that will slowly or not so slowly die? Should newcomers to the hobby be encouraged when the legislation in place is a farce? I removed the embedded links to sources from my original Wikipedia cut and paste, but they are easily found as well as the youtube videos of the results of dynamite and cyanide. If I still had a reef tank I would not be swayed by any argument but I might agree that it is not responsible, especially for highly interested but unprepared and uninformed newcomers. The great majority of these animals are wild caught by people looking to make money, not because they have any respect for the creatures like you and I do. Cruelty is bad enough, but devastation and extinction is unspeakable.
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