Dry common goldfish revived; now with mucopurulent discharge

[metalhalide]

Day 10: Second day in "fungus cure." Fish is still feeding from the wand. No clamping or apparent distress. Fungus remains in some places. Hard to tell if there is progress or not. I'm wondering something:

Has anyone seen fin tips go black? I noticed this about 24 hours after starting the "fungus cure." The black is just on the tips of some of the fin rays, plus there are some black spots near the lateral line. These black spots are all on uninjured parts of the fish, e.g. the left side where the skin stayed intact. The reason that this concerns me is that I wonder if it could be necrosis. Or is it just a side-effect of stress or the medication? Again, the fish is in no apparent distress and thanks, Fozzybear. I am limiting how much I am disturbing the tank.

An observation: Aquaria Central is probably the best source for information on fish and tank care. I mean that it is really good. OTOH, good local help is hard to find. I called a couple of vet's offices to see if they do microbiology, like gram or fungal stains and they generally don't. The ones that I spoke with didn't really have an interest in diagnosing or treating goldfish, and they recommended talking to people at the LFS/pond shops, which I have done. Not much more scientific, either. They sold me "bacteria food" that they swear by. That could mean probiotic (like yogurt) or antibiotic (like minocycline) food. The lady there didn't know. She did tell me to stop doing water changes because "they just stress the fish more." I plan a 25% water change tomorrow.

What would be nice would be cards, like pediatricians use, for rapid strep testing. Smear some of the parasitic or bacterial gunk on the card, let it sit for 10 minutes, and read it. The + sign tells you what it is. Fish owner is happier, buys the right treatment which might actually make the pharmaceutical manufacturers happier...or poorer. Sales might go up, or might go down when people stop throwing everything into the tank when the fish starts to have trouble.

 

[metalhalide]

Day 12. The black fin tips and spots were secondary to ammonia poisoning. Within about 3 days, the ammonia level was 8mg/L! And that was after a 50% water change on day two. I just took the fish out of the treatment tank and put it back in its spacious 75gal tank. I think that we both feel better about that. But I have done harm to the fish. Still eating from the wand, but fungus grew back while in the treatment tank, undoubtedly from the ammonia, and maybe just too much stress. I ordered Fungus Pro (griseofulvin, a real antifungal) from National Fish Pharmaceuticals. Its basically a race between the fungus and UPS, though it may still not save the fish. Just limiting visits to feeding, water checks and nothing more.

 

[Jannika]

Thanks for the updates. The fish sounds like a fighter, here's hoping he pulls through!

 

[mel_20_20]

You're working hard to save him, I sure hope he pulls through. Keep the water quality pristine. Please keep us posted.

 

[metalhalide]

What I tried to post on day 16

* Today is about day 29? I tried to post this on day 16 but couldn't:





"After my last post, the fish really declined, especially over the weekend. Over the last three days I noticed that it was swimming weakly and today was clamping its fins. But it still really likes to feed from the wand.

The methylene blue and griseofulvin didn't arrive until today.

Anyhow, I prepared a methylene blue dip of 2.5ml (1/2 teaspoon) of 5% methylene blue in a five gallon bucket (about 18 liters because I didn't fill it up all the way). So 50g per liter initial concentration methylene blue. 2.5 ml or 0.125g in 18L. 6.9mg/ml. (if you are using my account as a guideline, please check my math and definitely check with other, more knowledgeable sources) Whatever the final concentration, it was a surprisingly deep blue. I also put two drops of clove oil (risky, because too much can kill a fish), placed a bubble stone in the bucket and transferred the fish via ziploc to the bucket and covered it for 30 min while I topped off the tank. Checked it intermittently. Sometimes the fish would be at the bottom and you could barely see it. My son and I used a flashlight to make sure that it wasn't in distress. Then the fish went back in a ziploc with plain tank water just to dilute the residual MB, then back in the tank. While I was mixing the griseofulvin I noticed that the fish was sifting gravel so I fed it a few more pellets with the wand. This is very unscientific, but the fish seemed invigorated by the dip. It unclamped its dorsal fin and was feeding pretty vigorously.

Griseofulvin is just naturally poorly soluble in water and the stuff I am using seemed to form a reluctant suspension. I agitated it in R/O water in a cup as best I could and gradually dumped the cup into the tank. I'm going to try making a paste tomorrow and diluting it to see if it suspends a little better. Anyway, I dumped the charcoal out of the filter inserts and saved the mesh so I have biofiltration without filtering out all the griseofulvin.

NFP says to redose the tank with griseofulvin every day and to do a 25% water change before each redose. Minimum 10day and maximum 14day treatment. Will keep posting."


Postscript: These methylene blue baths are really stressful for the fish and there is potential injury every time you transfer them to the bucket and back. I spoke with someone at NFP who thought that the reason that the fish felt better was because of the anesthetic effect of the clove oil. He recommended against more baths. The griseofulvin is a much more effective drug.

 

[metalhalide]

Day 29

This fish is alive and doing well. Because of all the water changes and time I've spent doing baths and mixing up medicated food, I have not posted for a while.

The fungus (Saprolegna?) has gradually receded with daily water changes and griseofulvin. I used cotton balls a few times to remove the fungus, but stopped because I thought that it was stressing the fish too much. Anyway, the fungus is almost completely resolved. Unbelievable.

Overlapping the fungus problem was a new development: white stringy feces, swimming backwards, diminished appetite, and black fins. I thought that this was secondary to ammonia poisoning, but it got worse and worse. I spoke again with the guy at NFP and he said that the signs sounded a lot like a protozoal infection (Hexamita). I did some more homework and found that worms can also cause some of these signs. So I treated with metronidazole and praziquantel. I did the metro the hard way, crushing 250mg pills from a local pharmacy, shaking them up in some RO water, and pouring the mixture in the water (250 per 10 gallons so about 6 or 7 pills) and pouring in prazipro. Much easier would have been API's General Cure that contains both of these drugs. I treated the actual tank water twice. The fish wasn't getting better, so I also gave it food soaked in 1% metronidazole. But it was spitting out the food, so I force fed it a slurry of 1% metronidazole and pulverized fish food. Google force feeding fish so you have some idea how I did it; this was something that I did cautiously and reluctantly. It sucks. After 3 force feedings (it spit those out, too) I gave up. Most of what I read suggests that the metronidazole needs to be ingested. So maybe the force feedings made a difference, because the fish started to eat voluntarily again. Now it is ravenous and is again making formed stools, but they are still white. We'll see. It is acting like the fish our family has known. It is energetic, is eating like it used to.

My hypothesis: the fish was telling us something when it jumped out of the tank. I think it jumped out because it had a parasitic infection.

 

[Jannika]

Wow, I'm so happy to hear that he's doing so well! Really appreciate your detailed account, too. Keep us posted.

 

[mel_20_20]

Amazing! I hope your fish continues to improve. Please keep us posted. Wonderful news! Great job!

 

[platytudes]

Wow, I love your story! I hope your goldie can get to as close to 100% as possible.

I think you may be right about the parasitic infection, although I'm not sure where it would have been exposed since I assume it is alone in the tank (sounds like it) and you probably don't feed live food.

It sounds like you've spent a fortune on medicine and food already, but just wanted to recommend to you Angels Plus de-worming flake. It's garlic flake to start with, so that's a plus (appetite enhancing, with some mild anti-parasitic properties) but the ingredient, Fenbendazole, worked marvelously for me when my platies had Camallanus worms:
http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm

It sounds like your fella is having no trouble eating, but in case he ever does lose interest in food again, you might want to get some garlic oil capsules and try squeezing a bit of the oil into food, I've done this before with success. I take the capsules myself when I feel a cold coming on.

Just curious, do you work in the medical field? Your descriptions are amazing, and you also seem to have a great deal of knowledge on medications. I am always surprised by how similar fish and human medications can be.

 

[Manafel]

I'm glad that you fish is doing better! you have amazing endurance and fortitude haha! Keep us posted!