Extremely distressed newbie

[pinballqueen]

Lovely writing, btw....

Well, the old addage that a fish will only grow as big as its environment will let it isn't entirely false, it's just not true in the way you would think....

The fish will grow until its movement is constricted, and then it will die. So, yeah, a fish will only grow as big as the tank will let it. It's like putting a kid into a box and leaving the kid there until he/she dies from the lack of space (sorry for the gruesome visual).

A lot of fish, such as carp species like goldfish, that will grow to several feet in the wild and live close to a century will only top out at a foot or so if kept in any "normal-size" (say, under 200 gallons) home aquarium and only live about 20 years at best, due to the confined conditions....then again, there are other fish that will grow larger in captivity than they do in the wild because they get spoiled with a rich diet.

There's another thread in general freshwater that deals with photography that might help you take pics of your tank.

I'm glad to hear your tank is doing well, and it sounds like your lfs at least knows a little about what he is doing. Most of us in the States can't say that....

 

[Nischint]

He died....

Sad news. I think the cycling was going fine, until I saw that some of the fish, rather mos of them, were coming up to the surface and taking in deep breaths. The store guy had said I should do 20 % to 30 % water changes every week, but it still hadn't been a week since I had changed the water. But i got paranoid. So at around 9:30, I siphoned off about 20% of the water and replaced it with good, de-chlorinated water. I took out the filter, cleaned the sponge thoroughly (with loads of brownish and orange poo coming out) and replaced it. The problem is that I knew the water temperature differences might be a problem, so I made sure to check the temperature of the tank water and equalize the new water's temperature to the same level. That's when I put in the water.

At 12:00, I was just looking at Asgard, when I saw one fish (one of the platys) floating/swimming on his back. At first, I thought it was a trick, or maybe it was in the path of the water filter, which is why it was moving around so much. But when I went closer, I couldn't see the fins moving or the gills moving. So I caught it in the net and checked it again. The verdict was in: It was dead. It was quite sad to see that a second fish had died and that too again, due to my negligence and newbie mistakes. But I have no idea how this one died. Maybe I didn't check the temperature thoroughly enough. Maybe I didn't do the water change sooner enough. Maybe....

If I had only been a little less emotional about a bunch of fish and tank...

Well, wishes don't come true, so for now, I'm gonna have to deal with it. The other fish seem to be fine and they've stopped coming to the surface. I think I'll do another 20 % water change, in a day or two.

Does this happen usually while cycling an aquarium with fish in it?? Is there any other way to do this?

 

[pinballqueen]

The problem with cycling with fish is that you almost always lose a few before the process is complete. Sorry to hear that you've had casualties, but it is an unfortunate truism in the hobby that fish often die without apparent cause. This can be very discouraging, I know.

I think I can lend some insight here, though. If you've got fish gasping at the surface, you probably are in the middle of an ammonia spike, and your less-hardy fish might not be able to take it. The good news: you're almost through with the cycling process if this is the case. Have you purchased a testing kit yet? Now might be a good time to.

Next will be a bacterial bloom, where the water is so doggoned cloudy you can't see the back of the tank. Then after a few days, you'll look in there and it will be clear as a bell. Mission accomplished.

Incidentally, when you rinsed out your sponges, did you use tap water or water from the tank? If you used tap water (*ahem*) DON"T DO THAT NO MORE!!!! (sorry, I just thought I needed to yell at some point in this post...). Use the dirty water from your water change bucket to clean out the sponge, just squeeze it out until it's more or less cleaned off. Sponges hold bacteria that you very desparately need in your tank, now more than ever. Rinsing them in tap water just kills off the bacteria and slows your whole operation down.

You can do water changes more than once a week, especially if the tank is as well stocked as yours is. Whenever my big tank got to be a little crowded, I changed out 25% twice a week with no ill-effects.

Fish can handle a degree or two of temperature change pretty well for the most part. If it feels the same in the tank as it does in the new water, it should be fine (the fingertip test).

Good luck!

 

[Cichlid Woman]

Also, the reason you had so much dirt and goopy stuff in your filter was probably the goldfish. They're a lot dirtier to keep that most tropical fish.

-- Pat

 

[Nischint]

Overfeeding..

Spoke to store guy, he said I had been overfeeding the fish. I think he was a little upset but was in fact extremely polite about the whole thing. Said that since I overfeed, although the food may be consumed within the next 15 to 20 minutes, the poop and the degradation of the food causes the ammonia buildup. He was happy to hear that I did the water change and then said the same thing as pinballqueen, although he didn't shout at me

I did use tap water to clean the sponge but will now use the dirty water from the tank to do the work. According to the store guy, he gave me the goldfish coz they're tough and they poop a lot. Apparently they can be used to cycle the tank thoroughly and they work faster than most other fishes, thereby ensuring that my work gets done a lot quicker.

He didn't have a test kit handy at the time, and he's a little far for me to go all the way. Is there any DIY kinda test kit I can do at home???

 

[ArkyLady]

Most of us here are big fans of the "fishless cycle" others posted about. Just because goldfish are tough and more likely able to withstand the nastyness that goes on in a cycling tank doesn't mean they are disposable fish. That always upsets me

I don't like goldfish though, they poop too much

 

[Nischint]

Over water changing???

Is there such a thing as "over water changing"? Coz just in one day, I changed about 20 % water twice, once in the afternoon at around 3:00 pm and then again at around 9:00 pm. The first time, I had good reason, my cautiousness. The second time, it was my paranoia.

And my fish are becoming a little smarter. When I feed them, I shut off the filter and put the feed in one corner, away from the pumps and heater. Now, whenever I come near the tank, they all rush to that one corner. When I put my hand over that corner, they literally push and shove to get above everyone else. They do the same thing, when I move my hand to the other corner.

Guess it's the "Hand Of God" thing for fishes

Update On Asgard & Atlantis:
Asgard is doing fine, the fish are settling in nicely, hardly have to worry. Maybe I'm speaking too soon, lets see how it goes.

Atlantis is good, though I think Hades & Phera are getting bored of being in a bowl and not getting as much attention as they used to. Can't wait to add them to Asgard once my cycling is over.

Apologies to ArkyLady. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that goldfish are a disposable species. And you're right about the pooping, they're like my year old half-sister, who just can't get enough of peeing on my lap

One more question: Where's the best place to keep a submersible filter in a tank? I have mine right in the middle of the tank, against the back of the tank. Problem is, the water current coming out of the filter is pretty strong, so some of the smaller fish just get blown away.

 

[pinballqueen]

I think it would be a great thing to do daily water changes, as long as you don't change too much at a time, no more than 15-25%...and since nobody has that much time....

If you do 30-50% changes, I wouldn't suggest any more than once a week or you'll risk starting the whole cycling "thing" over....

 

[ArkyLady]

I wasn't aiming my comment at you, but more at the fish store guy who seems to be telling you that

 

[Sting]

First off, everytime you clean the filter (and please, other board member's correct me if I'm wrong ) you are getting rid of the bacteria you are trying to build up. I have a biowheel, so I know where the bacteria I don't need to clean is, but in your tank I'm not positive. But if continue your cleaning rituals, as you have done, which are good to an extent, the bacteria you are waiting to build up, will never build up because you keep cleaning it off.

Also, please, I can only recommend not to buy any more fish! You definitely should get rid of a few, but don't add any more, because if you just replace the fish you had, then it will be no different. Sure the goldfish give off more waste than other fish, but you are still overcrowded, and it's not worth it.

Another piece of advice, after the cycling is done - Get those Angel's out of the bowl!!! Angels can grow to be very large (very 6-10 inches long in some cases) and a bowl is not a proper home for them, no matter how bad it offends your girlfriend. It just is not big enough.

You seem to be on toes, and sound like you are willing to do whatever you can to help your fish, and fish tank.. Cycling your tank with as many fish as you have will not have only taken a couple of days, like you said, but it does take a lot longer, your fish death only indicates it's not over yet.

DO NOT get an eel, or pirhanas ever! LOL! These fish will not work in your tank, and I hate to say it, but the Arowana wouldn't have lasted long anyway (they get VERY big).

You will do fine, just look over some websites suggested, and you'll learn a lot. Also, read the posts here, the people on these boards are VERY knowledgeable and will help you out! Soon enough, you fish tank will be beautiful, and settled down.
Don't worry, it happens to all of us sometimes in our fish keeping career, just a part of learning from your mistakes.