feeding mistake :(

[Dahlia]

AHHHHH!!! I could kick myself. Last week I bought some frozen beefheart at the recommendation of my LFS to help get my severum to a good size. I decided to try it out Friday morning, and I noticed the severum seemed to not think it was food and spit it back out. Perhaps because it was new, or they were too small for it. "No worries", I thought, "I'll just come vacuum it out in about 20 minutes or so, that way the corys can try it out". This coming from someone who locks herself out of the house several times a month and can't remember her age half the time (the latter maybe isn't a bad thing).

Friday being my mother's 50th birthday, I ended up worrying about getting our small evening party planned out and forgot about vacuuming the tank. The next day was our larger family Thanksgiving get together. Again, I forgot. Today, I remembered. But too late. I lost a corydora and a severum. They looked like they had just died in the past couple hours, too.

I've been so obsessive about keeping the nitrates low in that tank that I do water changes in it several times a week. I'd done one the day before I overfed them. I'm so frustrated.

I did a 40% water change earlier and I'm about to do another 25-30% one. I use a water conditioner that locks ammonia so I'm hoping that helps. The strange thing is that none of the fish looked remotely stressed even before the first water change. Could the corydora and severum that died have been weaker fish?

 

[Sum-X]

It's possible that some got more food than others... How long did you go for without feeding them?

 

[Dahlia]

Hmm I'm confused about what you are suggesting/asking. Basically I feed them regularly (daily, usually small amounts several times a day) and vacuum regularly (2 times a week usually). I didn't actually feed them yesterday, but since they eat so regularly I doubt that was the issue. If I think that a lot of the food settled to the bottom and won't be eaten I usually take a moment to go back and vacuum or net it out. I often watch to make sure all the fish are eating, though the corydoras are more difficult to watch when they eat. I know both severum were eating very well. I'm pretty sure all the corydoras were eating well, too.

The severum that died was the least dominant of the two, and slightly smaller in size. They were not very aggressive with each other being the only two in the tank, the same sex, and quite young (1 and 1/2"). However, the slightly larger one occasionally bossed the smaller around. I am not sure if the corydora that died was the smallest in their group or not.

I keep checking on my fish and the others seem to be free of stress and swimming around healthily. The water stayed kind of cloudy after my extensive cleanup earlier today and the water still tests some trace ammonia, but I am hoping it is on the decline.

 

[Sumpin'fishy]

I would have to come to the conclusion that you don't have enough bio-filtering capacity, if I just had to guess from what I'm seeing written. I've left uneaten food in tanks (including beefheart) for about a week until the next water change. In fact I've left foods until they were no longer noticable. I consistently keep my nitrates below 10ppm in ALL my tanks, except one. Although lately I'm trying out going two weeks between water changes, my Blackbelt Cichlid tank still still stays at 20ppm or less Nitrate readings. I NEVER detect any ammonia.

I would suggest you possibly slowing down on your water changes (sounds crazy I know!) to build up some bacteria to get rid of ammonia. 10ppm Nitrates is still excellent water quality, and even in planted aquaria, people dose to this ammount regularly. If your tank is so crowded that you have to do this many water changes to keep water quality up, then that is another story! From the posts I've seen of yours before, I wouldn't assume this is the case, but ya never know. What size tank is this? How many fish? Why so many water changes?

It could be something completely different, but I wouldn't think anyone would have to keep up that kind of water quality without breeding Discus, or in fry tanks. Even then, water changes are more like 10-25% (smaller, more often). More info might be in order.

 

[Alexander Hoss]

Do you have any live plants?If not, get some. They'll keep your nitrite level down.

 

[anonapersona]

Full tummies?

Did the dead fish have full tummies? They might have eaten too much, just guessing.

 

[tomm10]

I have a couple of questions.

Is the tank cycled?

What size is the tank?

What else is in it?

What are the levels in the tank (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph)?

To me, it sounds like you could cut down on the feeding and in turn cut down on your maintenance. Your corys are bottom feeders and should help keep the gravel clean of extra food. If the tank is cycled you probably shouldn't need to use an ammonia blocker either since there should be enough of a beneficial bacteria colony to take care of all the ammonia the fish/food produce. In fact, it might be a longshot but, your water change schedule, vacuuming, and use of ammonia blockers might be hindering the bacteria.

I'd be interested to know more details.

 

[Dahlia]

Okay, there seems to be a little confusion from reading my post so first let me say my post is about what I did once I discovered the dead fish. I don't normally do 40% water changes twice a day and put in ammonia blocker. Normally there are 0 ammonia and nitrites in this tank. Nitrates are under 10 ppm. The water changes I do during the week are about 10-15%, because I like to keep the gravel clean so that wastes don't break down into nitrates. I believe (perhaps erroneously so if someone wants to correct me) that growing fish get to a larger size the less nitrates they are exposed to, thus why I do small vacuuming 2-3 times a week. I also have read fish release a hormone that stunts the growth of surrounding fish. I figure it can't hurt to keep that as diluted as possible while my fish are growing if it is true.

On this occasion none of the fish seemed to eat any of the beefheart, and I had overfed a little anyway. I think perhaps the corys would have eaten more of it but some of it got lodged under the plastic plants. I would think that raw meat would break down more quickly than some other types of food. I also don't know for sure whether this is why the corydora died. I thought later after a second look at the bodies that it had been dead slightly longer, so perhaps it contributed to the ammonia problem.

The filter in this 30 gallon tank is a Fluval 4plus cannister. It is actually a little too much filtration as far as the water current, and I'm going to have to switch to a different filter before I can keep angels in this tank. It has 260 GPH.

From what I've read, tanks cycle and bacteria multiplies as long as there is any ammonia available at all. Would skipping water changes really make a large difference in how much bacteria is in my filter? Also, the amount of water I change a week tends to add up to 30%, which is what seems to be recommended weekly.

I am trying to plant this tank but it is a hex, so I haven't found a lighting solution for it yet. Live plants keep down nitrAtes.

The "my tanks" link in my signature is up to date, but it now has 1 small severum, 4 skunk corys, and 5 zebra danios.

Can fish really die from being too full? My fish looked healthy but not fat as far as how much they'd been eating. By small feedings through the day I mean small, so I probably end up feeding as much as most people do daily. I did overfeed with the beefheart. I dethawed a whole cube but didn't have enough fish to eat it all. I gave some of it to my convicts and the rest to the severum, but since the severum rejected it, the entire amount collected on the bottom.

Mostly I was sad and venting, but thanks for the helpful responses.

 

[tomm10]

Now its much clearer

Personally, I still think you're on the over protective side with the water changes but that's just me. I doubt its hurting anything unless the constant intrusion of the gravel vac is freaking the fish out forcing them to live in constant fear of the "Giant Sucking Thing".

To the best of my knowledge, frequent water changes won't alter your bacteria colony. When I mentioned it in my earlier post I was thinking there was an OUTSIDE chance that when couple with the other things I thought you were doing regularly, it might have made your tank a little too clean I don't think that's the case.

I really don't think the fish could have been overfed to death. AFAIK, the fish would just start passing undigested food when they've had too much. It might have been a problem if it was chronic but I doubt one indulgance killed them.

Plants will definitely help with your nitrates but I understand your dilema with a hex tank. Maybe you could try some floating plants. there are also some low light plants that would probably do okay in the tank as long as you have decent lighting in the tank. Its worth a shot.