goldfish bleeding from gills

[teleost]

If you don't mind, look at the gill cover for the white spots as I agree with others....sounds like a tuberculate male to me.

The most obvious thing to look at as far as bleeding....you fed, it bled so my question is...what did you feed it? Did the food have any shrimp in it? Many foods use grass shrimp which have a very sharp rostrum.

 

[Flaringshutter]

We have to know what you're feeding him. It's possible that there is something sharp in the food, it's possible that what you were seeing was red food particles, or it may actually be blood. It could be hemorrhagic septicemia, as mentioned before, but we need a little more info to be sure.
My best guess is he had something stuck in his throat or gills and the "vomiting" was him convulsing to get it out, and along with it came a spurt of blood.
I wouldn't add any meds to the water, just do a large water change to ensure he's in clean water so whatever wound he has will heal up and not get infected. If you can net him for better inspection, that would be good as well. Be very gentle.

 

[isontenney]

ok, first off sorry I didn't follow up on the thread sooner, I was taking a 4 day child safety course for the clinic I work at.

someone asked if I used dechlorinator, yes always.

and then there were questions about him being able to hit himself on sharp things, nothing sharp in the tank, a couple pieces of driftwood, a large plastic rock thing.

tankmates are nine other goldfish, a school of long finned danios, a betta, a herd of corydoras, some kuhlis, a couple of golden dojos, a couple of rubber lipped plecos, and a few upside down catfish. This is a 75gallon tank btw.

as far as what I have been feeding him, regular fish flakes, "goldfish discs" slow sinking food, algae wafers, and sinking shrimp pellets.

He hasn't done the whole bleeding gills thing since I first posted this. and yes I am sure that it was blood, I am a medic in the air force, I know blood when I see it.

also of note is that another fish in the tank came down with gill flukes, I treated with Coppersafe, after a few days it seemed to help only a little. I did a massive water change and treated again with Jungle brand "parasite clear" and he's doing much better.

I am not sure, but I am thinking the fish might have been bleeding from the gill as a combination of having a minor case of gill fluke, combined with possibly eating too much too fast, and damaging his gills with food passing through them.

so as of right now everyone seems to be healthy. no more funky bleeding gills, no more gill flukes.

Thanks for all your input and suggestions for this. My wife was panicking about the fish bleeding from the gills. but I think we've got the problem fixed.

 

[Kashta]

Hi isontenny... Looking at the stock you keep in the same tank, I must urge you to review more specific needs for each species you've listed more closely. A 75 gallon tank is not large enough to support 10 goldfish on their own, much less combined with all the other fish you have with them in the same tank.

You also have some compatibility issues between the different species that should be given some consideration.

You've already seen from the numerous replies posted here how much we share the concerns of fellow members and fish enthusiasts. We're very happy to help out however possible.

All the best...

 

[isontenney]

it is possible that my tank is overstocked, especially later when the gold fish get bigger. I'll admit that, but I have built a custom filter that would handle a tank 4 times this size, so the water quality has never been an issue, it'll just get a little crowded and when that time comes, I want another tank anyways.

as far as species compatibility, you are mistaken. What are the criteria for whether or not 2 different fish can live together in harmony?
1) will one hurt the other?
2) will one eat the other?
3) will one constantly bother the other?
4) do the water parameters for one fish conflict with another?

These fish all get along great. Thank you for your concern, but it is unfounded.

 

[inkyjenn]

more than the tank size, you have mixed tropical and cold water fish. a lot corydoras species need temps of at least 78, and goldfish need cooler than that. you need to review your stocking and decide if you want to do a tropical or cold water tank

 

[Kashta]

Clearly, not everyone who asks for advice is going to be receptive to hearing it when it's received. We'd usually much rather hold onto our notion that everything is "just fine" because the fish "appear" to be healthy. Personally, I have found this mode of thinking to be at cross-purposes whenever I have had reason to seek advice myself. The way I look at this is... if I'm not willing to consider the answers I might get, then why bother asking the question?

There are two things about this thread that puzzle me. Why would someone question bleeding gills in the first place when they already know other fish in the same tank have (active) gill flukes? And... if all the fish are as healthy and happy as they seem, then why did these flukes affect them at all?

Both skin and gill flukes are virtually impossible to eradicate completely; these microscopic organisms are always present with our fish. Then once an outbreak occurs, they spread rapidly throughout the whole tank and show up in very active form, affecting our weakest fish first. However, flukes pose no problems whatsoever for healthy fish living in well maintained conditions.

As with most other forms of parasitic disease, a fish is not going to be affected by skin flukes or gill flukes unless it is already stressed and sick for another reason. Whenever there is an outbreak of any parasitic disease, this should always be seen as a secondary issue that indicates something else is already wrong.

This being the case, we should always look for other factors that may exist that have caused a weakened condition with our fish. Because these conditions are what lead to secondary illnesses, parasites, and possible death if they are left uncorrected.

isontenney: Don't be so quick to dismiss the suggestions you're getting from other experienced goldfish keepers in this thread. Most of us are in a position to offer you the advice we have now because we've already made huge mistakes in the past and we've already lost a lot of very dear fish over what seemed to be such minor maladies to us at the time.

The flukes you have already observed affecting your fish are a secondary symptom of a larger, underlying primary cause.

 

[Flaringshutter]

Isotenny, having started out with such a mismatched tank as yours, I definitely know where you are coming from. But as Kashta said, those of us with more experience try to help out the newer fishkeepers and prevent problems before they happen. Let me be clear: we're not trying to be critical or put you down. It's catastrophe management, really.

Let me give you a quick example of why some of your species are incompatible. Goldfish require at least 15 gallons of space per fish, so your tank is currently holding exactly twice the number of goldfish it can support. Since they produce so much waste, goldfish need a filter rated for twice the tank capacity. Therefore, if your filter is built to filter four times as much water as is in the tank, it is just barely keeping up with the number of goldfish you have in there, let alone your other fish.

Bettas are terrible tankmates for goldfish, because they do best in temps of 70-80 degrees, require very clean water to prevent finrot, and need a high-protein diet that is incompatible with a good goldfish diet. While goldfish are neutral-pH species, bettas do best in soft water. Your cories, loaches, plecos and catfish are tropical species, while dojos are coolwater species. When the goldfish get large enough, they will attempt to eat any fish that will fit in their mouths, endangering the danios and kuhlis. If the fish is a little too big, it can get stuck in the goldfish's throat, killing the goldfish.

Not to mention that plecos and kuhlis are both very sensitive species, being scaleless and should be removed from the tank before any medication is added and treated separately at a much lower dose. Coppersafe is not an effective treatment for gill flukes. Flukes of any type need to be treated with a parasite-specific medication like praziquantel or formalin. You need a treatment that will kill not only the adult fluke, but the juvenile stages as well.

The idea with fishkeeping is to prevent any tragedies and provide the best environment possible for the fish you are keeping. Much like children (you will know about that, with your child safety course), fish are vulnerable to the environment they live in. As caretakers, we have to be responsible for their wellbeing and provide an appropriate environment. It prevents stress, illness, and tragedies, but also gives us the opportunity to witness interesting and wonderful behaviors. Just like with kids, prevention is the key to health. No parent plops a child down in a park and thinks, everything must be fine because he looks great right now. The broken glass in the sandbox, the peeling paint on the swingset, the barking dog across the street - you have to consider the future for your fish and do what you can to keep them healthy and happy.

Best of luck to you and your fish.

 

[VivaLaVics]

I keep cichlids, not goldfish, but have to say that these people are a great, FREE resource! When I first joined AC I had a fish get sick and posted much like you have, people who had been through similar things with their cichlids replied. At first I was reluctant, but then by following their advice, my fish survived. The next time I had issues I took in every piece of advice that was out there.

AC has done nothing but make me a better fish keeper, and help me strengthen my knowledge of fish. These guys have already made the mistakes we make now, and are only here to help us make the decision needed to avoid those heartbreaking poor decisions.

The fish keeping hobby is one of false-truths and misconceptions. Often you cannot even trust the words of people at fish stores. Here, on AC you can find up-to-date information from people who actually care and have experienced the same situations in real time.

I hope you are not put off by the blunt wording of some responders to your post, (which I would have been upset about too!) and dig deeper to see that they are only trying to help. The other posters here are attempting to reassure you that they are here to help as well. I would at least consider and think about their suggestions and concerns. You have to ignore some of the blunt opinions here, as this is a free site and you will find people who rub you the wrong way anywhere.

Best of luck to you. I'll be watching to make sure you're fish make it through. Keep us updated!!!

 

[isontenney]

New fish keeper? I have successfully kept saltwater fish, freshwater discus, angels, sevrums, and every other fish in between over the years. You are all to caught up with whether or not a fish is "classified" as tropical or freshwater. The temp in the tank is 76F, high enough for any "tropical" fish to be comfortable, and low enough for the "coldwater" goldfish to be comfortable.

as far as me posting a question and then not accepting answers about it, if you had all actually posted replies to what my question was, then I would have accepted that. But instead you all zoomed your focus in on what you considered to be improper stocking.
and to answer Kashta's comment about my posting the question about the bleeding gills, while I supposedly knew another fish had gill flukes, you're wrong, the other fish came down with gill flukes after the bleeding gills incident.

as far as why the fish got sick? they're fish, we've taken them from their natural environments and stuck them into glass boxes. They're bound to get sick every once in awhile. People do.

Now then, let's leave it at the fact that we don't agree. and will some Mod please lock or delete this thread so I don't have to listen to this anymore.

The fish are recovered, and they are fine now.