Goldfish sudden death, help!

[elinore]

About a month ago, one of the two goldfish in my 55gal, an oranda, suddenly passed away. There was nothing visibly wrong, no signs of stress at all and the water params were perfect. We were sad but figured it must be just a freak occurance. Well, now the other, a ryukin/pearlscale hybrid is upside-down. Other than being upside-down, there seems to be nothing wrong. He's a male and I can see some breeding tubercles out, but I think it all looks normal. I've seen dropsy, and this is not dropsy. I know it's a long-shot, but any ideas? I'm just desperate. The only thing I can think to do is try to feed him some peas maybe if he'll eat, but it's not looking good. Does anyone have any advice for me? The other inhabitants of the tank are some cories and bn plecos but they all seem fine. What the heck is going on with my poor goldfish?! Thanks.

 

[sorberj]

What temperature is the tank at? BN plecos and most cory species are typically at a warmer temp than goldies like to be kept at. The peas might be helpful if there's some sort of intestinal issue, however it's more likely a bacterial swim bladder infection. Fancy goldfish are particularly susceptible to these types of infections and they usually require quarantine and antibiotics. If the temp is fairly high (mid-70s) then you may want to drop the temp on the QT down as well, this will slow the bacterial infection. The main tank needs to stay in the low to mid 70s though depending on the species of pleco and cory that you have in there.

 

[elinore]

The tank is kept at room temperature but in our house with heated floors, that means mid-70s (73-76) even without a heater. I know it's a bit warm for goldies but it's always been just fine in the past. What I'm really concerned about is, what kind of illness strikes without any symptoms whatsoever? He was perfectly fine earlier today and ate like a pig at noon. His fins are perfect, eyes and gills look fine, there's not even any bloodshot or fuzzy edges as I've seen with most fish with such severe stress. The other thing that concerns me is that, whatever this is, it seems to be contagious. When this happened before, we didn't catch the fish in the upside-down phase, and it was just dead in the morning. I'm guessing that that's what is going to happen again. Because of the heated floors (something we never considered before setting this tank up in our new house), I don't think I can really significantly lower the temp in a quarantine tank, but I will put it where it is less likely to get heat. Do you think the slightly higher temperature could be the cause of this? What type of antibiotic would you suggest? I have a bad feeling that it may be too late since I have none on hand, but I can try to get some if he's still alive tomorrow.

Thanks for the help! (By the way, the ancistrus and cory cats were added after we realized that our formerly cooler goldie tank would be a bit warmer and in their temp range. We figured that when the goldies eventually passed on in years and years, we'd change it over to house something more tropical, but never expected the goldies to go like this, so suddenly.)

 

[Somervell]

I really doubt that temperature is the problem here with the goldies. Many fancy keepers keep their tanks between 70-73, so it's a little warm, but not that warm.

Try the peas. What you are describing can be the symptom of a couple of things, both of which Sorberj described-- swim bladder or bacterial infection. Does the fish also have clamped fins, or any other surface symptoms ( reddening, scale problems, streaks in fins, etc?)

If your fish makes it (keeping fingers and fins crossed) You might want to invest in some medicated food to keep on hand. Medigold is terrific and works on many goldfish illnesses quickly, because the fish eat it, and it gets the medication to them internally.

 

[elinore]

Well, miracle of miracles, he's still alive this morning. Surprisingly, he's able to sort of right himself for short periods of time, and seems to have more "fight" in him than last night, when he just hung upside-down. There are literally no symptoms that I can see still. Fins are long and flowing and perfect, there is one small tear in the caudal this morning but I think that's just from his energetic behavior, no scale problems that I can see. There is one scale on his side that seems a bit "bumpier" than it should be and is a duller color than the rest, but I can't tell if it's a problem or just one of his random pearl scales. I don't think it's new (it looks more like an old scar or just odd colored pearl scale) but that is the only thing I can see that looks slightly different. He does still have the breeding tubercles, but I'm pretty positive that's all they are. I couldn't get him to eat any peas last night, but this morning he was feistier and I got about 2.5 into him. I usually have medicated food onhand, at least for my koi, but of course this has to happen when I've forgotten to get more but I think I can get some this afternoon. Thanks SO much for the help!!!

 

[Somervell]

Well, I'm glad things are looking a little brighter this morning. Keep us updated!

 

[elinore]

I forgot to mention something: he does seem to be breathing quite hard. I assume this is because of whatever is wrong with him, but perhaps it's also caused by the effort it takes him to keep upright. Should I up the oxygen going into the tank, or do you think the added bubbles would just make it harder for him to keep himself upside-right?

 

[elinore]

Here's some interesting new information. I just had a chance to speak with my mother, who came home before I did yesterday. She is the one who found the fish, but he wasn't just upside-down: he was wedged into a back corner, somehow sandwiched between the filter outtake and the glass (it's a bowfront corner tank so there is an odd corner in the back), with it's head above water on one side. This means that it's mouth was above water for some time. Perhaps this is the real issue. When I came home last night, she'd just told me that it's eye had been above water (I'd noticed it was a bit cloudy), and had figured the getting stuck had occured because of the illness, but perhaps the damage is the primary problem instead of a secondary problem. The eye looks much much better today. The fish's face was out of water for some period of time (I can't know how long since there was no one here from 5:30-8pm). My mother says that when she found the fish at about 8pm, she dislodged the it and gently held it in the water upright as it was trying to go upside-down for at least 15 minutes, just moving it slowly back and forth. When she finally let it go, it still had trouble staying upright and almost immediately went belly-up and she also noticed that its gills seemed darker and were working overtime. aAt the time, she feared that it had the same presumed illness as our poor deceased oranda had mysteriously died of a month ago. Now, I'm thinking that perhaps there is no illness, but rather just physical damage from this incident.

What is the best course of action, factoring in this new information?

 

[Somervell]

When I read rapid breathing and darkened gills, the first thing that comes to my mind is ammonia toxicity, but you say your parameters are spot on. When were the cories and BN added? Is it possible that they have increased the bioload by a bigger amount than might be considered originally?

If the fish were trapped, it's possible that he/she got injured. Were the gills submerged? If not, that could explain the labored breathing and the darkening. When you say "face" what do you mean? If that's the case, it might just be a matter of time to allow for healing. It may just be a matter of clean water and time to see what develops. The fish has obviously experienced a certain amount of trauma, and it may take a while to get back to normal. If the symptoms worsen or new symptoms appear, then I would take other action.

 

[elinore]

The API liquid test kit shows 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and 0 Nitrate. The Cories have beein in there since last November and the BNs were added in January.

By "face" I mean for sure everything in front of the gill on the right side, and everything in front of but not including the eye on the left side. The gill on the right side was at least mostly above water, but the left side was probably under water. Now, almost 24 hours later, he's able to swim mostly upright, but not quite. It's clear that his swimming isn't normal, but it's so much better than yesterday. He still prefers to wedge himself under a plant in a corner and stay still rather than swimming, but every once in a while he moves about. He's still breathing hard, but not as hard as this morning. I'm going to give him more peas soon I think. Any idea what the prognosis is? I know it's impossible to really know since we don't know how long he was out of water for, but I wonder how much damage the gills can take. The eye that had been above water and gotten damaged yesterday is all clear now and there appears to be no lasting damage. I just can't tell about his gills though.