I have to euthanize

[Dangerdoll]

Kyle, I used the clove oil way but with a goldfish and though it was hard to actually go through euthanasia (I struggled with it too) it, it seemed the peaceful way to do it. I didn't put the goldie in the freezer after sedating him... I simply kept him in the clove oil for a couple of hours and that did it. The goldie was weak already so there was no thrashing and it took a few minutes for him to stop breathing. When I added the last couple of drops though after, it seemed like it was a really pretty peaceful way to go.
I don't know if it would work for bettas though, I guess I never thought about it.

 

[kyle3]

carpguy

i'm sorry i wasn't clear but... here are all the details if you must know

water parameters are amonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates were around 3 before the water changes mentioned in the previous post

i've had him on penecilin b/c he has a bacterial infection that is progressing very quickly- and penicilin is the best antibiotic when dealing with something that moves as fast as this has.

symptoms are:

listlessness- a fish that usually spends his time between cruising around his tank and swiming enthusiastically up and down the glass in the corner closest to me in an attempt to get some food

fin rot of the sort that visably reduces the fin about a cm a day and browns the edges as it goes

swollen body with a bit of a dropsy look to it

his appetite had been good yesterday he was taking only 1 hikari ball at a time (usually and the on Mon and Tue he takes 2 at a time) today he doesn't eat at all.

his coloring is muted on his body tho his tail is still very blue green

his breathing is not labored tho i noticed today a white spec on the top of his right gill

my conclusion is that he must have had a mild internal infection that i hadn't noticed and when the temp crashed it took hold and weakened him making him suceptable to other problems. I am not one to jump into the decision to euthanize but i can see the penecilin is too little too late and it has neither improved his condition nor slowed the deterioration of his health.

I can also see that he is suffering and i don't want his death to be slow and aggonizing as it seams inevitable now. my conclusion is that euthenasia is the most compassionate thing i can do for him

 

[carpguy]

If you're sure about the dropsy, it may be a lost cause. I don't think the air-breathing is going to stretch things out as far as cold, alcohol, or clove oil is concerned.

There are some topical treatments for fin rot including, Google tells me, gentian violet. It has some fairly personal uses for humans so a pharmacy may have it if your LFS doesn't. I would look into a fin rot specific topical treatment.

You should also be aware that penicillin isn't always the best antibiotic (leaving aside the question of whether or not we should give antibiotics to fish). Gram-negative bacteria are apparently inherently resistant to penicillin. At least one genus of fin rot causing bacteria (Aeromonas) is gram negative. Another, Pseudomonas (also gram negative), "is resistant to Penicillin, tatracycline, erythromyacin; sensitive to cyproflexin and genomyacin".

I'd try to find something that'll work specifically against gram negative bacteria or that is specifically cited as an appropriate treatment for fin rot.

Not to start the whole "do fish feel pain" war up again, but the best I can do at a fairly neutral rendition of what science has to say is that if they do, its in a fairly primitive way and that—completely lacking anything we might describe as a conciousness—they aren't particularly aware of it. The idea that they're suffering in a way that'd be similar to what happens to us doesn't seem to be the case.

If you decide you have to euthanize, rapid cold, clove oil, or alcohol all work rapidly and are humane options.

 

[kyle3]

I originally intended to use maracyn and maraycn two to treat both possibilities of neg. and pos. but was talked out of it b/c adding more than one med can precipitate death. but i couldn't determine which would be the right med and was told penicilin was an aggressive antibiotic that would cover all the bases

I'm at my whits end trying to decide who to listen to and who to discount

Now i don't know if it's better to try maracyn 2 and put Arised through another osmotic change in the hopes that he'll recover or if i should still euthanize.

WTF :sad:

 

[DaisyTattoo]

You obviously love this little guy and want the best for him so dont be so hard on yourself in your decision making. Look at it like this....if you euthanize, are you going to feel guilty for not trying something else? If the answer is yes, then try the other meds and see if they work...If I am correct I have seen posts where people used two meds to treat bot pos and neg. you might do a search to see if you can find them. Whatever decision you make, make sure it is the right one for YOU. Make sure you will be at peace with it.

 

[carpguy]

I originally intended to use maracyn and maraycn two to treat both possibilities of neg. and pos. but was talked out of it b/c adding more than one med can precipitate death.

In some cases yes, in others no. A quick google tells me that Mardel claims that Maracyn and maracyn two are safe to use together. I'd want to confirm that, but I think Maracyn two is the one you'd want in this case, if you can only have one.

but i couldn't determine which would be the right med and was told penicilin was an aggressive antibiotic that would cover all the bases

Not true. Many bacteria have built up a tolerance and gram negative bacteria have an inherent tolerance.

I'm at my whits end trying to decide who to listen to and who to discount

So don't listen to anyone. I've never had this problem: everything I'm telling you has been googled this afternoon. Start with Flexibacter, fin rot and gram negative bacteria, penicillin and gram negative bacteria, penicillin and fin rot, maracyn two and fin rot, kanamycin (Kanacyn), maracyn for flexibacter. There is a lot of info out there.

Now i don't know if it's better to try maracyn 2 and put Arised through another osmotic change in the hopes that he'll recover or if i should still euthanize.

Antibiotics don't produce osmotic stress.

Look into temperature and meds as well: low 80s is high for bettas to begin with and I think it has an effect on some meds.

 

[DaisyTattoo]

Look into temperature and meds as well: low 80s is high for bettas to begin with and I think it has an effect on some meds.

Ummm....low 80's is low for bettas. They really should have temps above 80 degrees to be healthy. Yes as far as the meds go, lower temps are better from what i have heard. However, in general a bettas temp should be above 80*.

 

[YoFishboy]

Years ago when I had a wicked bacterial infection in one of my cichlid tanks, I used Furazone - it treats both gram pos. and neg. bacterial infections, and it worked very well.

 

[Roan Art]

I euthanized Jakers with clove oil and it worked extremely well. I took a small tupperware container with a lid, added tank water and 5 drops of clove oil. I shook it up VERY well until nothing was floating on top and then put Jakers in.

He just -- went to sleep. No struggle. Just sleep.

Jakers was my first fish, a betta.

I miss him.

Roan

 

[carpguy]

Ummm....low 80's is low for bettas.

fishbase.org doesn't list a temperature range for Betta splendens, a domesticated hybrid, but does for B. imbellis, the wild fish that B. splendens is believed to be derived from: 24-28˚ C (about 75-82˚ F).

This very nice article gives a range of 76-80˚ F and considers 78 to be ideal. It more or less agrees with fishbase and with other stuff I've read.

From what I can find 82 is at the high end of what's good for a betta and it could be bad for the meds. I can't find a good cite for the temp thing and meds. I think I got that tidbit from here and if I had to guess from Roan. Roan? Cite?

If the temp thing remains an open question and it were my fish, I'd be keep the thermostat set around 77-78. Low 80s is high.

EDIT: try fishbase.org directly if you have trouble with the link… I think one of their mirrors is a little off.