Interesting idea, natural environment idea, NEED EXPERTS

[RazzleFish]

I agree that creating such a tank isn't going to work out long run but you can come close by doing either a biotope (recreation of a small area in a larger ecosystem). Recreating a food web is just so difficult and even one too few or too many could cause the whole system to fall short of expectations. If someone were to create a HUGE tank like the one at the Georgia aquarium (with 6.2 million gallons of water) it could work but even then it would be hard. If only someone would make a tank this big for freshwater fish!

 

[GotTanked]

I've discussed this a few times and I agree... I mean in some circumstances in SW, fish like the Mandarin Goby live solely on the copepods that naturally reproduce in the aquarium. However there are many failures of this same strategy and it really is a guessing game to some extent...

The conversation I've had is, how large of a tank would you need to have a breeding population of Neons feed a population of Angelfish with no human intervention? IMO you'd have to make sure all the angels were male or something so the dietary needs would stay the same. Otherwise as soon as an equilibrium point was reached between angel snacks and neon fry, the angels would breed and upset that equilibrium...

Anyway, we decided that you'd need to re-create a huge section of blackwater bio-tope... so in the end not very practical. I wonder, though, if there was a "neon safe zone" with an opening too small for an angelfish to fit through, but large enough for a neon tetra... if perhaps this idea has a shot at working.

:lol: of course... once you get the angelfish feeding on your neons, how do you feed the neons without disrupting the bio-tope? Are water changes "natural" either? Would you fertilize the tank? Etc etc...

 

[tanker]

It is possible if your top preditor does not reproduce.

EX: A 500gal with one preditor (an angel fish), with about 200+ Cardinals/Neons and about 600+ shrimp. Lots of light, lots of plants. Will probably last till Angel dies.

 

[Rbishop]

I've discussed this a few times and I agree... I mean in some circumstances in SW, fish like the Mandarin Goby live solely on the copepods that naturally reproduce in the aquarium. However there are many failures of this same strategy and it really is a guessing game to some extent...

The conversation I've had is, how large of a tank would you need to have a breeding population of Neons feed a population of Angelfish with no human intervention? IMO you'd have to make sure all the angels were male or something so the dietary needs would stay the same. Otherwise as soon as an equilibrium point was reached between angel snacks and neon fry, the angels would breed and upset that equilibrium...

Anyway, we decided that you'd need to re-create a huge section of blackwater bio-tope... so in the end not very practical. I wonder, though, if there was a "neon safe zone" with an opening too small for an angelfish to fit through, but large enough for a neon tetra... if perhaps this idea has a shot at working.

:lol: of course... once you get the angelfish feeding on your neons, how do you feed the neons without disrupting the bio-tope? Are water changes "natural" either? Would you fertilize the tank? Etc etc...

Hope they are natural....or all that rain is going to waste....

 

[GotTanked]

Haha Right but that's more of a top-off than a change!

 

[Rbishop]

Not really....the rain and drainage, or flow of the entire area is a constant water change basically. Nutreints from the surrounding area feed the system, just as the flow thru removes undesirables....

 

[GotTanked]

Well of course... I'm just saying, in nature, nobody sticks in a gravel vac, sucks out half the water, and dumps new water in. :lol: So in a sense naturalism in your tank is a slippery slope... if you want to go 100% au naturale then you might as well just dig up a portion of the Amazon and plop it into a tank!

I guess my point is... we attempt to create stable artificial eco-systems that rely on human intervention. The further away you try to get from that, IMO the problems only multiply. That doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile endeavor, but if I were tackling a self-supporting tank I'd want a research team and plenty of grant money

 

[jetajockey]

It is possible if your top preditor does not reproduce.

EX: A 500gal with one preditor (an angel fish), with about 200+ Cardinals/Neons and about 600+ shrimp. Lots of light, lots of plants. Will probably last till Angel dies.

I don't know if that is the goal here though, I was thinking of an ecosystem that will sustain itself indefinitely. If your top predators cannot reproduce then the whole thing is on a timer.

 

[tanker]

I don't know if that is the goal here though, I was thinking of an ecosystem that will sustain itself indefinitely. If your top predators cannot reproduce then the whole thing is on a timer.

Here's the problem to that. In a natural system when there are too many preditors the stronger ones will chase out the weaker to another location (this cannot happen in an enclosed system). This gives the prey time to reproduce and catch up.
The weaker ones move off, die (starve, ect) and do not reproduce (no food ect.).

 

[Chrisinator]

I think something like this could be done with like cherry shrimps and let's say Neon Tetras in a rock/heavily planted setup.