Is it worth buying a pair of L046 for 400 USD?

[jake72]

Just for my curiosity are any of the black/white pleco you own 'out going' or seen around the tank during the day. I know it comes down to individual fishes as well as species but curious if I were to add one to a display tank which species I would try. I have experience with several species of pleco and have found that sex of the fish as well as individual behavior makes a difference in their behavior but generally speaking some species are more shy (or nocturnal) than others.

When I was outputting them at their maxi rate I was selling them at $100/inch. Ultimately, I sold lowered the price by offering the first 1/4 inch for free. As to how much I made that is a relative question. I have owned zebras since about 2003 but breeding was not until 06. I think they are a striking looking fish. Pure white and pure black in world of colors.

Back then I was lucky to be able to buy them and had to spend $270/fish and 5 fry were free. That was $3,510. That did not include the hours spent driving an hour+ each way to see them and then to pick them up. It doesn't count the cost of the tank and contents, the food and electricity, etc. It also doesn't count the fact that the Belo Monte dam may likely wipe them out in wild. It also doesn't count the risk that for any reason one can lose a fish. And it doesn't count the cost of the penalty I had to pay to take a premature withdrawal from my IRA to pay for them.

Next, they do not spawn non stop. The best you can theoretically get from just a pair would be a dozen spawns a year. And the average number of eggs that hatch and that you can expect to sell is 12-15. So you are looking at 144 to 180. But I used to assume 10-12 per spawn so 120 - 144. But they tend to spawn for about 9+ months and then hiatus for about 3+. So you can expect about 108 to 135.

To sell them you will have to ship. My rule was I would not sell them until they had both reached 6 months old and 1.5 inches total length. So you have to feed and house them for that. You have to keep them alive, healthy and growing. You cannot do this on flake or dry sinking foods. Diet matters both for spawning the adults and for feeding the kids.

Today they still sell for $100/inch or a bit more, but not from stores etc. So you can figure out about what one might make from a pair.

If you want to give them a try the safest thing to do is to buy a small group of youngsters. the cost/fish will be less. At a smaller size they are difficult to sex, So the odds are if you buy at least 6, you will for sure get a couple of females. I work with groups not pairs. I feel 6 is the absolute minimum, but I prefer 8 and normally 15 the max. Not pushing things expect it to take between 2 and 3 years if you start with 1.5 inch fish.

The thing about all of this is no matter how well one cares for a pair, no matter how well they are fed, it is still possible to lose one, especially if they are not in their own tank with nothing else that might carry something nasty. But if you did lose one, then all you have is a lovely fish you will rarely see. If you want to work with pairs then you either buy even more and when they get bigger you may be able to vent them and know for sure. or you can try to catch a trapping and pull them both in the cave. But one pair has that added risk if is is all you have for breeding.

I am now in my 70s and working my way out of the hobby over 2022 and 2023. As a result a while back I stopped buying fish I needed to grow for very long before they were potentially able to spawn. You sound a lot younger and can be patient.

As for what I made, mostly it went to pay my hobby costs and then to pay for the next species I got. The price got a lot more than zebras as I moved from expensive to insane But I am a sucker for the B&W Hypancistrus: zebra, L450, contradens, L173b, L236, L173 and my fianl buy, L236 superwhite.Along the way I had addorted tank strains of bn plus P. compta (leopard frog pleco).

Hi, my name is TwoTankAmin and I am an aquaholic.........

I bought proven breeders and I had my first spawn within two weeks of getting them home. I was lucky. There are some real experts who cannot get them to spawn. They had to just ignore them for a year or two and then out of the blue.... I am fortunate, I have great well water for SA fish abd other soter water , near neutral pH fish. Every pleco I have kept has spawned sooner or later. So did angels, corys, danios, blue eyed rainbows betta imbellis and a few others.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I think there are few things which result in whether plecos mostly hide or they are out in the open during times you might see them.

1. Wild caught will hide more than tank bred.
2. Diet will also matter. Algae eaters and vegetarian plecos tend to spend more time eating and are more likely to do so during the day.
3. Bigger v.s. smaller matters. If you are more likely to be eaten, you hide more. A big armored pleco feels safer exposed than do tiny ones.
4. Environment matters in terms of there being dithers. In places with normally faster flowing waters smaller dither fish cannot live. So a pleco from the Big Bend of the Xingu where there are a lot of rapids will have plecos which hide a lot.

As fish keepers we make choices. If you remove a lot of the cover plecos might use for hiding, you will see them more. But this will stress them and this can mean problems.

If one is willing to make an effort to see their zebras, you can spot them. I normally array my caves along the front glass. I get to see things like this:

Male plecos compete for the best caves and the best ladies. At night I often see a couple of males on the front glass sparring.

When it comes to males in a cave there are two different behaviors I see all the time. If the male is wanting a female to take interest the male will hang his tail out of the cave and wave it back and forth at regular intervals. Its kind of like saying "Here I am come on in." However, when a dad is on eggs he needs to keep them well aerated. So he will do what I call the bump, bounce boogie at one or two minute intervals and which is taken from the song,

The dad is deeper in the cave for the bump bounce boogie. But considering how the dad likes to cover and hide the eggs the bump bounce boogie is often how I know there is a new spawn in the cave,.

So while the B&W plecos may not be out and about like many of our fish, there are still times you can see them and behaviors you can watch. One has to make an effort to observe the Hypans which I keep and have spawning in my tanks. But that is what makes spotting them even more rewarding.

In the long run we all keep what interests and entertains us the most, if we can. I keep a few species of shrimp. While the amanos are always easy to spot, I have to work to spot the blues one in a planted 15 gal. and even harder to spot their red cherry cousins in a planted 5.5. But I still have both.

One big difference in keeping (and spawning) the B&W Hypans found only in the Big Bend of the Rio Xingu is they are likely all to be gone from the wild in my lifetime and I am in my 70s.

 

[jake72]

Sounds like you are saying that all the different black/white species that you are familiar with are equally shy.... Btw I don't totally agree with everything you said - or rather it isn't consistent with my sampling of other species.

 

[fishorama]

jake, there is 1 striped pleco that I was told is less shy than. I can't think of the L # & it may have been a gold/yellow & dark brown species, not black & white, but still striking. I'll think about it...years ago I think someone on AC bred them...maybe L134 leopard frog? peckoltia rather than hypancistrus

I had a L333? "scribble" & it was more nocturnal than what I call people shy. I just had to be awake near the tank when it was out with enough room light to see it. It helped to be an insomniac, lol.

 

[jake72]

jake, there is 1 striped pleco that I was told is less shy than. I can't think of the L # & it may have been a gold/yellow & dark brown species, not black & white, but still striking. I'll think about it...years ago I think someone on AC bred them...maybe L134 leopard frog? peckoltia rather than hypancistrus

I had a L333? "scribble" & it was more nocturnal than what I call people shy. I just had to be awake near the tank when it was out with enough room light to see it. It helped to be an insomniac, lol.

Thanks. I have a male L333 and he is bound to his cave; one would think he is glued in there - makes him easy to move when i need to clear the tank. Leopard frog i've not owned but i know several people who have them; but I would stick with my L204 over the L134. If you remember which species you are thinking of please let me know. When I setup the larger tank i will probably add a few pleco - amost certianly blue phnatom and gold nugget (not sure which one); but if there is a reasonable black/white one i might try it. They aren't high value but I've been pretty happy with my L204 - but they are on the skittish/shy side - much more so than bn:

 

[fishorama]

That is a pretty plec, I like the tail extensions! I tried a brief search & didn't see the 1 I meant. Short attention span while cooking...it may have been 10 years ago? BN females are out & about for me; males hide, like many pleco boys. Hard to tell when they're young too.

I forget the smaller gold nugget L# but that may be my choice someday. Blue phantoms are also nice. Are they compatible? I think I researched when I had discus & wanted a beautiful plec with them...eventually...goals can change, mine did when I moved cross country.

I would (& have) considered B & W plecs like 2tank breeds but not for a community tank...& not without breeding in mind. Not yet...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

No I am not saying that about all B&W Hypans. I am saying it about a number of them which are only found in the Big bend of the Rio Xingu.
zebra, 236, 173, 399, 400.

But diet is a good clue. The Hypans are omnivores which are meat lovers. The algae eaters and Aufwuchs feeders graze a lot. This means they are likely to be out a lot of the time. Also, where the plecos live matters. The Xingu is a very steep dropping river with areas of very high flow. That means no dithers. If zebras et. al. come out during the day, if they are near the surface, they are able to be picked of by much bigger fish and/or birds. One way to stay safe from bigger fish it to stay in tight space where they cannot fit. Survival often depends on not being seen.

I kept and spawned P. compta (leopard frog). They eat like the Hypans. I also have kept L333 and L66 (more Xingu Hypans). There are a lot of Hypans in the Xingu

If you want plecos that will be out more think algae eaters and Aufwuchs feeders. Bristlenose are an example. Also some of the wood eaters might work since they will be gnawing on wood a lot. Panaqolus maccus aka Clown pleco for example. In yellow striped maybe a Pekoltia vittata aka Candy Striped Pleco

 

[fishorama]

I kept both clown & candy striped plecs & loved them. But as I recall they were mostly nocturnal or at least crepuscular (dawn & dusk active). It's been a long time...Was that your experience 2tank? It may have been the fish I kept with them or when I fed their preferred foods. Pretty little guys

 

[jake72]

My clown pleco (not sure of the sex but I've had him for 3+ years); is extremely reclusive. I see him once every 6ish months. My tank is heavily over grown so there are a lot of areas for the clown to hide. Before the plants took off I knew his hiding places but now I would have to greatly disturb the plants to check if he is in them. Pretty sure he is fine as every now and then he'll get hungry and come out in the open up front to grab some food. In the left center there is a foot long piece of drift wood and that piece of drift wood has a cave he dug out mid way up - you can't see it but it is quite large. The third picture is an early picture of the tank when it looked nice... before the plants covered everything.