Is salt needed to fight Ick?
- Thread starter matteo
- Start date
Well, you wouldn't necessarily want to add higher levels of salt for no reason as most FW plants do not thrive or like salty water but when you have an issue like Ich, you're kind of stuck between a rock and hard place. Since the treatment should only take a week or so, the plants should tolerate the added salt up to the levels suggested.
So today after coming home from work I found two Cardinal Tetras and one Otto dead. Is this from the stress of the Ick? Im worried it might be the change in temp / salt / consistency of the environment.
I have so far reached 84 degrees, raising 2 degree per day. Yesterday I did a 50% water change and added 3 tablespoon of salt to a 5 gallon bucket of water and slowly added that in while I was refilling the tank. I plan to repeat that process until I have the salinity to where it needs to be.
Should I continue this process today after loosing 3 fish overnight /during the day? Should I wait another day or two before changing these parameters more?
Thanks for your advice.
Edit- I thought I would mention that I do have an airstone going 24/7 while the temp is raised, as well as two Marineland 400s which do turn the surface pretty well.
I have so far reached 84 degrees, raising 2 degree per day. Yesterday I did a 50% water change and added 3 tablespoon of salt to a 5 gallon bucket of water and slowly added that in while I was refilling the tank. I plan to repeat that process until I have the salinity to where it needs to be.
Should I continue this process today after loosing 3 fish overnight /during the day? Should I wait another day or two before changing these parameters more?
Thanks for your advice.
Edit- I thought I would mention that I do have an airstone going 24/7 while the temp is raised, as well as two Marineland 400s which do turn the surface pretty well.
I have no clue what your salt level is right now.
What was the salt level up to prior to your PWC yesterday? 1 teaspoon per gallon, 2 teaspoons per gallon or some other amount?
When you did the 50% PWC, how much water did you remove? You mention adding 5G back with three tablespoons of salt. Were these level tablespoons or heaping? Please try to stick with teaspoons per gallon so there is no confusion on your end or the readers end. I know a level tablespoon is equal to apx. three teaspoons so you added nine teaspoons to the 5G bucket? Was the bucket filled to the top or 1/2 full or some other level? Without knowing any details, I don't know if you're keeping things at the same level or constantly changing the salt levels.
When you do a PWC, if you remove 3G and the tank had 2 teaspoons per gallon in it, then when you replace the 3G, add 2 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water so you are keeping the salt level the same.
As far as what caused your fish loss, I don't know since I don't know your salt levels. If you are at only 1 teaspoon per gallon and you followed my earlier directions, then you should not be seeing any fish deaths related to the salt... so I would presume it's the Ich. If you are at three teaspoons per gallon, then how were the fish doing at two teaspoons per gallon? Did you observe the fish for a reasonable amount of time after adding the followup doses of salt to see if they were showing signs of stress related to the salt?
Give us details and post each time you do something... or even before you do something instead of afterwards when it's too late to say no.
Why did you do the 50% PWC yesterday? Unless you are seeing some kind of nitrate issue getting really high or some other issue, there's no need to do a PWC during this treatment. It should only take a week or so and if you did a PWC prior to starting the treatment, you should have been OK through the treatment.
What was the salt level up to prior to your PWC yesterday? 1 teaspoon per gallon, 2 teaspoons per gallon or some other amount?
When you did the 50% PWC, how much water did you remove? You mention adding 5G back with three tablespoons of salt. Were these level tablespoons or heaping? Please try to stick with teaspoons per gallon so there is no confusion on your end or the readers end. I know a level tablespoon is equal to apx. three teaspoons so you added nine teaspoons to the 5G bucket? Was the bucket filled to the top or 1/2 full or some other level? Without knowing any details, I don't know if you're keeping things at the same level or constantly changing the salt levels.
When you do a PWC, if you remove 3G and the tank had 2 teaspoons per gallon in it, then when you replace the 3G, add 2 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water so you are keeping the salt level the same.
As far as what caused your fish loss, I don't know since I don't know your salt levels. If you are at only 1 teaspoon per gallon and you followed my earlier directions, then you should not be seeing any fish deaths related to the salt... so I would presume it's the Ich. If you are at three teaspoons per gallon, then how were the fish doing at two teaspoons per gallon? Did you observe the fish for a reasonable amount of time after adding the followup doses of salt to see if they were showing signs of stress related to the salt?
Give us details and post each time you do something... or even before you do something instead of afterwards when it's too late to say no.
Why did you do the 50% PWC yesterday? Unless you are seeing some kind of nitrate issue getting really high or some other issue, there's no need to do a PWC during this treatment. It should only take a week or so and if you did a PWC prior to starting the treatment, you should have been OK through the treatment.
Sorry, should have included that. Its a 75 gallon tank. I do 50% water change every Sunday. This is not dependant on this treatment, this is the weekly routine for all my tanks. I planned to start the salt treatment with that water change.
There was no salt prior to the water change. The tablespoons were level. I have no logical reason for using tablespoons instead of teaspoons. The salt was mixed in a 500ml glass jar in hot water, this was added into a 5g bucket with tank temp water. The mixture in the bucket was then added by hand with the same jar into the stream of the python filling the tank.
I would guestimate that I changed around 30 gallons (half way down the glass). Can you confirm that if your recommended ratio was 1tsp:1gal and my applied ratio was 3tsp:10gal (9tsp:30gal), wouldnt this leave me at something like 0.03%? Or should I be thinking 9tsp:75gal? Granted it is not where you recommended (0.1%) it is -thankfully- on the low side. A lucky mistake hopefully.
How do you recommend I proceed? I have no commission to offer GL, Im sorry to say
There was no salt prior to the water change. The tablespoons were level. I have no logical reason for using tablespoons instead of teaspoons. The salt was mixed in a 500ml glass jar in hot water, this was added into a 5g bucket with tank temp water. The mixture in the bucket was then added by hand with the same jar into the stream of the python filling the tank.
I would guestimate that I changed around 30 gallons (half way down the glass). Can you confirm that if your recommended ratio was 1tsp:1gal and my applied ratio was 3tsp:10gal (9tsp:30gal), wouldnt this leave me at something like 0.03%? Or should I be thinking 9tsp:75gal? Granted it is not where you recommended (0.1%) it is -thankfully- on the low side. A lucky mistake hopefully.
How do you recommend I proceed? I have no commission to offer GL, Im sorry to say
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OK. We're on the same page now. Since you hadn't even started the salt treatment yet, then we can only presume that your fish deaths were related purely to the Ich since the amount you added was not enough to cause any kind of stress.
It's good that you did the PWC prior to starting treatment but I had just presumed that you would have started treatment immediately on 9/11. You should have started the salt at the same time you started raising the heat... although some folks have had success with heat only but I find that it causes the Ich to reproduce rapidly and without the salt in the water column to kill the free swimming stage of Ich, these free swimmers will infest the fish more quickly... which I think you said you saw happening.
Anyhow... now that we know you just started with a very low level of salt yesterday, you need to get it up to the 0.1% (1 teaspoon per gallon level). It should have already been at that level as of yesterday. Since you only added 3 tablespoons, which would only be 9 teaspoons, you have another 66 teaspoons to add. IMMEDIATELY add these 66 teaspoons (or 22 tablespoons... but when using tablespoons also include the teaspoon equivalent as this causes LOTS of problems in forums that I have seen over the years especially when folks start abbreviating and don't use the proper abbreviations.... not in your case) to a gallon or two of removed tank water. Stir until all the salt is dissolved. Then pour 1/3rd of this solution into your tank SLOWLY and avoiding filter intakes and direct contact with fish. After an hour, pour another 1/3rd of the solution. After an hour, pour the last 1/3rd. If at any point you see the fish acting excessively stressed out (gasping, etc.) do not add the next dose and give them more time to acclimate but they should handle this first teaspoon per gallon without much trouble. Keep your lights on later tonight so the plants continue putting out O2 for several hours after this first salt dose is complete.
Watch the fish during this time to make sure they are adjusting. If any of the start to act too stressed out, then do a 25% PWC with plain dechlored water... ONLY 25% or some other reasonably close (20% or 30%) and known level so we will also know how much salt you have removed.
Keep a log or diary of things or post all details here as your diary.
Presuming all will be fine if you follow the above, tomorrow you can start raising things to the 0.2% level by adding another 75 teaspoons of salt.
Just in case you didn't read the two links I gave you earlier, you only need to be using plain salt... not so-called aquarium salt from a pet store since it's just a way overpriced plain salt product. You can use the plain salt in the 2 pound round boxes found in grocery stores or you can fine a larger package called Kosher Salt or sometimes Pickling Salt but I'd go with whatever is the best price per pound.
It's good that you did the PWC prior to starting treatment but I had just presumed that you would have started treatment immediately on 9/11. You should have started the salt at the same time you started raising the heat... although some folks have had success with heat only but I find that it causes the Ich to reproduce rapidly and without the salt in the water column to kill the free swimming stage of Ich, these free swimmers will infest the fish more quickly... which I think you said you saw happening.
Anyhow... now that we know you just started with a very low level of salt yesterday, you need to get it up to the 0.1% (1 teaspoon per gallon level). It should have already been at that level as of yesterday. Since you only added 3 tablespoons, which would only be 9 teaspoons, you have another 66 teaspoons to add. IMMEDIATELY add these 66 teaspoons (or 22 tablespoons... but when using tablespoons also include the teaspoon equivalent as this causes LOTS of problems in forums that I have seen over the years especially when folks start abbreviating and don't use the proper abbreviations.... not in your case) to a gallon or two of removed tank water. Stir until all the salt is dissolved. Then pour 1/3rd of this solution into your tank SLOWLY and avoiding filter intakes and direct contact with fish. After an hour, pour another 1/3rd of the solution. After an hour, pour the last 1/3rd. If at any point you see the fish acting excessively stressed out (gasping, etc.) do not add the next dose and give them more time to acclimate but they should handle this first teaspoon per gallon without much trouble. Keep your lights on later tonight so the plants continue putting out O2 for several hours after this first salt dose is complete.
Watch the fish during this time to make sure they are adjusting. If any of the start to act too stressed out, then do a 25% PWC with plain dechlored water... ONLY 25% or some other reasonably close (20% or 30%) and known level so we will also know how much salt you have removed.
Keep a log or diary of things or post all details here as your diary.
Presuming all will be fine if you follow the above, tomorrow you can start raising things to the 0.2% level by adding another 75 teaspoons of salt.
Just in case you didn't read the two links I gave you earlier, you only need to be using plain salt... not so-called aquarium salt from a pet store since it's just a way overpriced plain salt product. You can use the plain salt in the 2 pound round boxes found in grocery stores or you can fine a larger package called Kosher Salt or sometimes Pickling Salt but I'd go with whatever is the best price per pound.
Clearly I misunderstood. I'm staggered that I will be adding 225 teaspoons of salt over three days (well, four) to get to 0.3%. Ill get on it.
Thank you for your help with this. Ill post up as things progress.
Thank you for your help with this. Ill post up as things progress.
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Just remember that each time you add another 75 teaspoons, you will not be adding them all at the same time. You will mix them in a gallon or two of water untill fully dissolved, then pour that liquid into your tank 1/4th at a time and giving the fish an hour to acclimate to the increase, then another 1/4th, etc., until you have completeted that raise in dosage over a three hour period of time. Then watch the fish to make sure they are doing OK... and if they aren't, you can do a 25% (or 20%) PWC to lower the level until they have acclimated and then the next day, start the process over for the third dose of 0.1%. If the fish seem too stressed at 0.2% and you have to do a PWC, you could add only 0.05% the next day and 0.5% the following day.
Of course, even 0.2% will have some killing effect on the free swimming Ich so if the fish seem to stress out too much if you try to go up to 0.3%, just leave it at 0.2% and let the heat and salt kill the Ich. It might take a little longer but it will still work.
Of course, even 0.2% will have some killing effect on the free swimming Ich so if the fish seem to stress out too much if you try to go up to 0.3%, just leave it at 0.2% and let the heat and salt kill the Ich. It might take a little longer but it will still work.
matteo,
I just started using this stuff called "Herbtana". I was told by one of the supervisors at That Fish Place that he's seen very good results with it and the fact that its all natural makes it real easy on the fish and hard to overdose. Plus I think it smells pretty good too! Ill let you know how it works for me but just thought i'd let you know!
Heres a link to see what the bottle looks like: http://www.amazon.com/Herbtana-Freshwater-Aquariums-16-oz/dp/B0034600N4
I just started using this stuff called "Herbtana". I was told by one of the supervisors at That Fish Place that he's seen very good results with it and the fact that its all natural makes it real easy on the fish and hard to overdose. Plus I think it smells pretty good too! Ill let you know how it works for me but just thought i'd let you know!
Heres a link to see what the bottle looks like: http://www.amazon.com/Herbtana-Freshwater-Aquariums-16-oz/dp/B0034600N4
