Mass Research Thread and Questions

[jpierce3]

nothing we do in the hobby mimics the wild

We give them water.

Actually, I think a lot of hobbyist try to provide an environment for their fish that resembles something you would find in nature. African cichlid keepers go out of their way to provide rock walls and hard water. Discus keepers, on the other hand, will go out of their way to provide soft water and plenty plant cover.

I have several methods that I try and go through if I have stubborn fish that I would like to see breed. For instance, a water change with much colder water that lowers the tank temp. Or same thing with very soft water. Or cold and soft water. Trying to imitate a spring thaw or rainy season flooding. Depends on the fish and what they would be exposed to in their natural environment.

There are many other ways we try to mimic nature. We provided powerheads and powerful filters for fish we know come from fast moving rivers. Or more still water for those that come from slow moving streams or pools. We can give them brackish water, black water, salt water, deep sand beds, live rock, wave makers, high lighting, low lighting, etc.

Ok so we may have an Asian plant in with mostly S. American plants with our angelfish, but I think a lot people do the best they can.

In fact, as I think about it, just cycling a tank is mimicking nature (in a limited sense). After all, we have to create an ecosystem that the fish can survive in unlike cats and dogs and it's already there for them.

 

[homedog98]

Could you use something like TFH magazine as a source?

 

[Fishfriend1]

nothing we do in the hobby mimics the wild

Everything about the advanced "naturalistic" tanks tries to mimic the wild, we just don't do too good a job because we like to see the fish too much.

Could you use something like TFH magazine as a source?

As a matter of fact I can, and plan to.

So, the topic is currently one of the following three:

Types of Tank and how to set them up. (FOWLR, Trop Fresh Commu, Cold Fresh, Cold Salt, Reef, African Cich, Species Only, Planted, Invert Fresh, Invert Salt, Amphib, and maybe some specialist tanks for the more interesting types of fish [jellies, seahorses])

Water Chemistry and the Nitrogen Cycle (with possible some explanations as to stocking and how filters work).

Following my 75gal tank in it's construction, cycling, stocking, planting, and all the other needed steps to go from a glass box on a big iron stand to a stable and interesting fish tank (this is the original plan stripped down a little).

I figured I would see which of the three that I A)can get information and research on, B)like the idea of, C)can actually bear to suffer through without giving up (not as easy as it looks), and D)can make a 25-30 slide powerpoint and have a solid years worth of work shown, documented, and proven on it.

This is for my Senior Graduation Project (SGP), and determines if I pass of fail the school year this year... So I do not intend to screw it up.

 

[Jannika]

"Water Chemistry and the Nitrogen Cycle"

If it's up for a vote, I'd pick this one. SO important, simple, yet still not understood by many.

 

[dbosman]

Too wide a field. A whole university fisheries department couldn't properly deal with your list.
Narrow it to one question that can be researched, answered, and defended.

 

[homedog98]

Maybe... "the importance of the nitrogen cycle in a freshwater aquarium"?

 

[Mgamer20o0]

We give them water.

Actually, I think a lot of hobbyist try to provide an environment for their fish that resembles something you would find in nature. African cichlid keepers go out of their way to provide rock walls and hard water. Discus keepers, on the other hand, will go out of their way to provide soft water and plenty plant cover.

I have several methods that I try and go through if I have stubborn fish that I would like to see breed. For instance, a water change with much colder water that lowers the tank temp. Or same thing with very soft water. Or cold and soft water. Trying to imitate a spring thaw or rainy season flooding. Depends on the fish and what they would be exposed to in their natural environment.

There are many other ways we try to mimic nature. We provided powerheads and powerful filters for fish we know come from fast moving rivers. Or more still water for those that come from slow moving streams or pools. We can give them brackish water, black water, salt water, deep sand beds, live rock, wave makers, high lighting, low lighting, etc.

Ok so we may have an Asian plant in with mostly S. American plants with our angelfish, but I think a lot people do the best they can.

In fact, as I think about it, just cycling a tank is mimicking nature (in a limited sense). After all, we have to create an ecosystem that the fish can survive in unlike cats and dogs and it's already there for them.

cycling a tank really isnt mimicking nature. we put fish that would normally have a huge rang in the wild into a little box.

most of the time when people talk about mimicking nature its looks which most fail to do.

Everything about the advanced "naturalistic" tanks tries to mimic the wild, we just don't do too good a job because we like to see the fish too much.

most of the so called natural looking tanks really are not that they are made to look nice very very few actually looks like something you would find the in the wild.

 

[jpappy789]

Last I knew there was a "natural" N cycle pretty much like in our aquarium...sure, it's a lot more complex but the basic processes are the same.

 

[MrPillow]

Are you supposed to be using actual scientific, peer-reviewed sources? If so, your school should subscribe to a number of databases in which you can search for articles relating to your topic.

 

[jpierce3]

cycling a tank really isnt mimicking nature. we put fish that would normally have a huge rang in the wild into a little box.

most of the time when people talk about mimicking nature its looks which most fail to do.

Yes, you are putting them in a confined space. You can't say that all tanks are smaller than the fishes nature range though. Depends on the species and the size of the tank. That is really not the point. Of course we are putting them in a limited space. It is how we manage that space that makes the difference.

I'm not saying that it perfectly resembles their true natural habitat, and would be impossible to completely setup up a situation where you would include every bit of a very complex ecosystem. Instead, I think that there are many pieces or aspects that we try and imitate to the best of our ability.

No a tank with pink gravel and a spongebob house doesn't really look like an Amazon river basin. However, people try to the mimic the fishes natural water system unknowing a lot of the time by attempting to get pH levels correct or filters that provide enough but not too much circulation. Again, we are forced to try and imitate some parts of their natural environment because without providing it, the fish won't survive, ie Nitrogen cycle. You can't just throw fish in tap water and expect them to live. We all know that by now and usually a hard lesson for beginners.

DSB Reef tanks would be the best example of someone trying to imitate nature as best as possible with the resources available. Everything from live sand and live rock that contains many of the organisms found in natural reefs to the lighting try best to mimic the suns rays. One of the coolest I've seen was a 2000g tank with this huge wave machine. All of the fish, coral, and inverts came from the same collection spot. He knew this because he collected them himself. He even collected all of the live rock from the same spot and replaced it with dead rock from the same location. His lighting system was amazing. All on timers that started with faint light to full on at mid day and faded to the other side of the tank at night. All very cool.

That is what mimicking is all about. Trying to imitate something as close as possible. Like a Blue Jay mimicking a Hawk, I can still tell the Blue Jay is a Blue Jay and a Hawk is a Hawk but the Blue Jay may fool the untrained ear.

MGamer2000, we may never agree, but interesting topic and obviously highly debatable. Your argument seems to be that we fail at mimicking because we can't ever get the whole range of everything within the natural environment to make it right or people just do a poor job of implementing it. A very valid case.

I think that we do succeed, but on a limited scope. That the broad scope of an entire complex location specific ecosystem would be impossible to perfectly imitate. But many aspects of that ecosystem can be closely imitated using the resources available. And how many of those aspects someone wants to implement and how close they want to try and make it to the real thing. We succeed in many different ways; intentional or not.

Either way, makes for an interesting topic for a paper