multi-species paludarium?

[Vicious_Fish]

Mixing species can be a tricky thing. Many people don't consider that the animals they want to keep together come from different parts of the world and therefore contain different types of gut bacteria. A creature exposed to a type of bacteria that is harmless to one species might be down right deadly to another. Also mixing species can stress them out as they see each other as competition. If you have enough space, this can be avoided by providing large areas for them to stake out territories. If you're are going to attempt to keep different types of herps together, consider doing it with animals that come in contact with each other in the wild. For instance, you could do a South East United States biotope containing animals such as Green Tree Frogs, Southern Leopard Frogs, Green Anoles, Southern Five-lined Skinks, Pygmy Sunfish, Sailfin Mollies, Madtoms, Mosquito Fish, etc. Remember that space is the key as well so the more the merrier!

 

[Notophthalmus]

Hi! I hope I'm not too presumptuous, seeing as how I'm new here, but I do have a bit of experience with paludaria.

First off, I agree that keeping birds in such an environment will make everything much more difficult. I'm sure it can be done, but I'm also quite sure that I wouldn't want to be the one taking care of it. This is just supposition here, as I've never kept indoor birds, but you could possibly have the top of the cage well-ventilated, maybe even all screened, with glass and other solid barriers on the lower portion and use a spray system with outlets below the screen to keep the lower portion adequately humid. Bird waste will be a problem, but heavily planted land and water areas should help.

Herps and fish can coexist quite well, but you just have to be careful of who you choose as tankmates. You have to look not only at the sizes they are now, but at the sizes they will one day grow to. Including big-mouthed predators like White's Treefrog, Tokay Geckos, Oscars, Green Sunfish, etc., will severely limit the number of other species you can include in the enclosure; a few species, such as White's Treefrog, are susceptible to drowning and should not be kept near open water. Turtles are another problem, if you choose to include them. Even species like stinkpots, box turtles, and sliders that normally ignore live fish and amphibians will sometimes devour sickly or sleeping individuals. Besides that, turtles are incredible waste generators. You'll need a pretty robust biofilter to deal with all their filth. Plus they are very hard on plants, especially rooted plants.

 

[legendaryfrog]

ZOO sized! Yes! Well, maybe not quite that big, but we are thinking a minimum of about 3'X4'X5'. The only thing I was worried about with the birds is their droppings. I am worried mostly about them contaminating the water and soil, but also about how to clean up such a diverse array of detritis. Do you think that keeping corys (or something like them) in the water would work? Ive also been considering a pump/waterfall/filter device to keep the water flowing and healthy. And possibly worms in the soil to help with decomposition and fertilization...

I remember asking this question to a viv forum a long time ago. Apparently the guy had real bad problems with the poop being eaten by the fish or floating around at the surface.

 

[syddakyd]

yea you think birds respitory systems are advanced? canary in a mine?
birds dropping dead from scented candles, lysol, teflon, pretty much anything lol

 

[moonstream]

yep, bids are def. out of the question. aside from the fact that EVERY KIND of bird has drowned in less then 3" of water at one time or another, they need completly different enviorments then herps.

MAYBE you could keep some tree frogs (green or whites) and some FB newts, as well as a few fish, but birds and reptiles are really just a bad idea. any birds and reptiles kept together will end with one of them dead.

all in all BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GOJIRADOR]

long tail grass lizards and green snakes (rough or smooth) are the best reptile candidates for a paludarium

 

[aquapants]

Yeah, we have decided to nix the super species mix. It could def work if we had more space, but for now, we want to stick to something a little more manageable so, sorry birdies, you have to stick to your aviary for now.
We have modified our idea to include mostly moist soil plants and some tree frogs. We want to keep fish in this environ but are worried about health risks to both species.
We really want some archers, but they require brackish water so Im not sure if that could ever work.
Any more ideas?

 

[Notophthalmus]

I've seen treefrogs in tidal wetlands, but I can't say for sure how fresh/brackish that water was. You could set up a brackish paludarium with various terrestrial crabs in place of the frogs, I guess; that might be pretty cool, actually.

If you want to keep frogs, though, true fresh water is probably your best bet. I've heard that White's Treefrogs should not be kept around open water, as they are prone to drowning, and also will attempt to eat fish. In my experience, North American treefrogs like grays, greens, bird-voiced, peepers, and chorus frogs can do fine in a paludarium setup. They generally stay out of the water unless they're trying to breed. I don't know about neotropical hylids.

If it were my tank, I would stock lots of small fishes like killifish, livebearers, or any of the various tetras and other small characins; bettas might do well too. If you want bigger specimen fish, you have to consider the possibility that they will try to eat frogs that stray near the water.