Need guidance

[cindywindy]

Hi, tsmckee !

Your idea of buying an Eheim is a good one. Overall, the Eheim filter is one of the best that you can buy, one of the best on maintenance, and also the most efficient. Well worth the cost. If you go with the Eheim, you probably won't need additional filtration, unless you want to overfilter a bit.

You asked earlier where the bacteria for the cycle comes from. The bacteria "itself" is not introduced into the tank via plants or anything else. The ammonia in the water is what begins the reproduction of such bacteria. You MUST have a source of ammonia present, otherwise there will be no nitrogen cycle !

If you have read about fishless cycling, you will already know that you can use regular household ammonia to begin the nitrification process.

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Corax]

Just be careful not to use ammonia that has OTHER things in it, such as perfumes. Those are bad for the tank. Use only 100% pure ammonia.

 

[OrionGirl]

No, the bacteria is not introduced with ammonia. The bacteria consumes ammonia, and so can develop into a colony instead of a few stray cells when there is a plentiful supply. The bacteria is in the water, on gravel, decoration, or plants taken from healthy systems. The ammonia is a food source, not a source of the bacteria. High concentrations of ammonia, such as in a bottle off the shelf, will kill the bacteria. If it didn't, the bacteria would consume the ammonia, resulting in nitrites.

 

[Corax]

Onion, are you saying that if one were to overdose their tank with ammonia during a fishless cycle, that one could in essence obliterate the bacteria we are trying to encourage to grow? I never thought about it that way.

Makes sense though, ammonia IS used in household cleaners as a disinfectant afterall..

 

[OrionGirl]

I think to obliterate the colony, you'd have to get the titer pretty high. Too high of an ammonia concentration results in a much slower decline--ie, it takes twice as long for the ammonia readings to go down. Since we don't know the specific bacteria responsible for breaking down the ammonia, there's not a reliable way to determine if they are removed, in stasis, or what. However, healthy bacteria reproduce exponentially, so unless the increased ammonia concentration impairs the bacterias ability to reproduce, doubling the ammonia should have very little impact on how long it takes the tank to cycle. But, people who overdose, or grossly overstock their fish tank, report difficulties in getting ammonia levels to decrease. This suggests that the high ammonia levels are in fact limiting the bacteria's reproduction in some way. How? I don't know. Could be that the increased ammonia reduces the availability of other supplies, like oxygen.

 

[Corax]

Or perhaps there is a finite ammount of ammonia it can process and the colony must increase population to handle the excess? I know when I cycle a sw tank with cocktail shrimp, the ammonia is off any chart you can find. Perhaps the lag time is simply the colony compensating?

 

[cindywindy]

LOL !

So, according to your line of thinking, if I boiled everything I chose to add to my tank, and disinfected it completely with bleach beforehand to rid it of all of its external bacteria, and then added an ammonia source to an aquarium full of sterile, distilled water afterward, that I would not have a cycle occur ? Of course I would !

There are countless aquarists that enjoy bare-bottom tanks with no decorations, gravel or plants at all ! Yes, even those incur a cycle. Under those circumstances, there is no other source of bacteria introduced, except that which is directly related to the presence of fish.

Nitrifying bacteria are indeed introduced by the ammonia present, in the form of urea, decaying food, by respiration, or by household ammonia. The only things required to begin a cycle are ammonia, oxygen, and surface area on which to grow. Plants, gravel, and decorations are of no consequence.

 

[slipknottin]

Ive always heard that the bacteria travel through the air.

High levels of ammonia will crash your alk levels and kill off any bacteria growth which isnt tolerant of the violent Ph swings.

 

[cindywindy]

Yes, of course. The ammonia will always be processed into nitrIte. Such goes the nitrogen cycle, and it is the one true constant.

Indeed it will slow to almost a standstill as it struggles to take up the additional bioload, but it will not be killed off altogether by even the highest levels.

EDIT :
LOL Slip, my comment was not directed at you... we posted at the same time !

 

[OrionGirl]

To a certain degree, that's the case. But, the exponential growth of bacteria is the hiccup. If you double the food source, and it has no hindering effect, then the increased length of time would not take twice the length of time. For example, if the concentration is 10, and it takes 10 days for the bacteria population to consume it, then doubling the concentration to 20 should result in a colony capable of completely consuming the population in (2*10) - X days, because with exponential growth, a single doubling of the colony happens very quickly. However, this is not the case--if you double the concentration, it takes more than twice as long for the bacteria to catch up, meaning the growth rate is no longer exponential. So, something is happening that actually slows the growth rate of the bacteria colony.