The bacteria are introduced in the water. Try it--I can get the nitrogen cycle to occur in a glass of water. I'm not saying that the only way to get the bacteria present is through introduction of a seeded medium, but adding ammonia from a bottle won't do it either.
Need guidance
- Thread starter tsmckee
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You guys have forgotten about airborn bacterias and spores that also contribute to the life cycle. Yes, we breath them every day. They are also present (very minimal) in the water that you use to fill the tank. In essance, you can cycle a bare tank with nothing in it. It wont be a very noticable cycle but it will be there.
Yes, of course it is slowed down to a large degree, thank you for reiterating my point because it is important for beginners to understand this concept. 
I'm not talking about exponential growth here. The statement that was made was that nitrifying bacteria will die off in extreme bioload conditions and I was only pointing out that while we may think that is the case because the process has slowed almost to a dead halt, that it is really not the case at all.
There is a substantial amount of bacterial reproduction that is going on, under the surface of what we can see or measure with our testing kits and while we may think and believe the bacteria have been eliminated rest assured, they haven't been. They are busy reproducing to keep up with the increased ammonia level, albeit at a slower rate. It's a matter of supply meeting demand.
I'm not talking about exponential growth here. The statement that was made was that nitrifying bacteria will die off in extreme bioload conditions and I was only pointing out that while we may think that is the case because the process has slowed almost to a dead halt, that it is really not the case at all.
There is a substantial amount of bacterial reproduction that is going on, under the surface of what we can see or measure with our testing kits and while we may think and believe the bacteria have been eliminated rest assured, they haven't been. They are busy reproducing to keep up with the increased ammonia level, albeit at a slower rate. It's a matter of supply meeting demand.
Nope, the ammonia is just that, ammonia. Pure and simple. the nitrifying bacteria is present in the water when you get it from the tap, but in numbers far too small to be of much use right away... The introduction of the ammonia simply gives the bacteria food to grow and multiply.
According to Tom Griffin :
"Unfortunately, neither the originally named two types, nor the most likely current candidates (edit: referring to the previously thought forms of nitrifying bacteria vs the ones they are now claiming) have a spore form, so in practice both types must be obtained live and actively metabolizing.
Where do we get these wonderful tank helpers? Well, it is possible to get them with fish. As fish nibble on their environment a lot in the search for food, they tend to have ingested a few good guy bacteria as they grazed, and when we bring them home, some of these bugs may survive the fish’s gut to initiate a colony in our tanks. This is the old way to “cycle” a tank, using a few, hopefully ammonia resistant, fish to start off. It does work, but it is anything from lightly to severely stressful for the fish (and keeper). "
"Unfortunately, neither the originally named two types, nor the most likely current candidates (edit: referring to the previously thought forms of nitrifying bacteria vs the ones they are now claiming) have a spore form, so in practice both types must be obtained live and actively metabolizing.
Where do we get these wonderful tank helpers? Well, it is possible to get them with fish. As fish nibble on their environment a lot in the search for food, they tend to have ingested a few good guy bacteria as they grazed, and when we bring them home, some of these bugs may survive the fish’s gut to initiate a colony in our tanks. This is the old way to “cycle” a tank, using a few, hopefully ammonia resistant, fish to start off. It does work, but it is anything from lightly to severely stressful for the fish (and keeper). "
Thanks for the new myth--I'm sure others will be amused that the ammonia could be the source of the very bacteria that consume the ammonia. Heck, magnify that and you will have a perpetual motion machine.
You may not want to talk about exponential growth rates (for example, how fast the truth spreads), but if you understood biology and math you would see that exponential growth rates for an expanding population means that increased food supplies means maximum growth rates, not prolonged ones. If this is not demonstrated by actual events, then something must be restricting growth rates. It may be ammonia concentrations, or changes brought about by metabolic processes, such as pH swings.
You may not want to talk about exponential growth rates (for example, how fast the truth spreads), but if you understood biology and math you would see that exponential growth rates for an expanding population means that increased food supplies means maximum growth rates, not prolonged ones. If this is not demonstrated by actual events, then something must be restricting growth rates. It may be ammonia concentrations, or changes brought about by metabolic processes, such as pH swings.
Don't tell Dr. Ron Shimek, he'll promote such lunacy as the gospel =)Originally posted by OrionGirl
Thanks for the new myth--I'm sure others will be amused that the ammonia could be the source of the very bacteria that consume the ammonia. Heck, magnify that and you will have a perpetual motion machine.
Since my name got mentioned......
Ammonia contains no bacteria. Ammonia is ammonia. Pur ammonia is even more so.
You have to seed the tank with something or hope the air bears enough to give it a start.
if you keep adding ammonia sooner or later it will cycle since airborne bacteria will eventually find a way in.
But, the hypothetical sterile tank with only ammonia added, if kept hermetically sealed...will not cycle.
Nothig there to consume the ammonia. It comes from outside sources.
Tom
Ammonia contains no bacteria. Ammonia is ammonia. Pur ammonia is even more so.
You have to seed the tank with something or hope the air bears enough to give it a start.
if you keep adding ammonia sooner or later it will cycle since airborne bacteria will eventually find a way in.
But, the hypothetical sterile tank with only ammonia added, if kept hermetically sealed...will not cycle.
Nothig there to consume the ammonia. It comes from outside sources.
Tom
