need sump info

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jojo22

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Sep 21, 2006
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How much flow should I have in the refugium?

The flow rate through a refugium is slower than through the sump. By use of a ball valve on the water feed to the refugium, you can set the flow rate to your specific desire. You need to avoid stagnant water, and the surface of the water should be broken slightly to avoid a film growing on the surface. Try to achieve a gentle flow throughout this zone.

Info found here: http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

The reason for this is that for your macros and DSB to work and do their job correctly, for one to understand this they need to realise that the export of nutrients and nitrate is not instant, it takes a few moments. so if you lay out your sump with a intake/return/fuge order you then put a "T" fitting in the return line with a ball or gate valve and route that to the fuge, water then goes thru the fuge at whatever rate you have the valve set to allow. Ideally you should have 3-5X turnover. This is enough to prevend any dead spots but slow enough to allow the water to have contact time with the macros for nutrient export and the DSB for de-nitrification. Do a little research on macro's and DSB applications and it will all make sense. If you put LR in your fuge the slower flow will also allow for more an-aerobic areas as oxygenated water will not be forced as deep into the pores of the rock which will also help with de-nitrification.


It makes alot more sence then just going with the flow and setting thing up the way others do, if we all set up our tanks the way everybody else did and never accepted new advances we would still be useing CC and UGF's on our reefs. The ONLY way this hobby advances is thru research and the acceptance of new ideas. So please look into this furthere and make your own judgement call.

By the way the link I provided is write by Marc Levenstein (I hope I spell his last name right) a highly respected hobbiest who has helped co-author many books and also writes and helps produce talking reef podcast. His advice should be taken with the same acceptance as that of Anthony Calfo,Steven Pro and Eric Bornman, as he is just as versed in the hobby his area of expertise just happens to be sumps.
 
Last edited:

Dixon

AC Members
Feb 16, 2006
1,804
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Sunderland UK
How much flow should I have in the refugium?

The flow rate through a refugium is slower than through the sump. By use of a ball valve on the water feed to the refugium, you can set the flow rate to your specific desire. You need to avoid stagnant water, and the surface of the water should be broken slightly to avoid a film growing on the surface. Try to achieve a gentle flow throughout this zone.

Info found here: http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

The reason for this is that for your macros and DSB to work and do their job correctly, for one to understand this they need to realise that the export of nutrients and nitrate is not instant, it takes a few moments. so if you lay out your sump with a intake/return/fuge order you then put a "T" fitting in the return line with a ball or gate valve and route that to the fuge, water then goes thru the fuge at whatever rate you have the valve set to allow. Ideally you should have 3-5X turnover. This is enough to prevend any dead spots but slow enough to allow the water to have contact time with the macros for nutrient export and the DSB for de-nitrification. Do a little research on macro's and DSB applications and it will all make sense. If you put LR in your fuge the slower flow will also allow for more an-aerobic areas as oxygenated water will not be forced as deep into the pores of the rock which will also help with de-nitrification.


It makes alot more sence then just going with the flow and setting thing up the way others do, if we all set up our tanks the way everybody else did and never accepted new advances we would still be useing CC and UGF's on our reefs. The ONLY way this hobby advances is thru research and the acceptance of new ideas. So please look into this furthere and make your own judgement call.

By the way the link I provided is write by Marc Levenstein (I hope I spell his last name right) a highly respected hobbiest who has helped co-author many books and also writes and helps produce talking reef podcast. His advice should be taken with the same acceptance as that of Anthony Calfo,Steven Pro and Eric Bornman, as he is just as versed in the hobby his area of expertise just happens to be sumps.

ok now i see what you mean and can go look in the right places.
my pipework is already been decided on with 2 pipes in a weir going to the sump with one of them as you described with a T peice and valve going into the second compartment.
i will now go look into DSB's and refugiums and even sump design.
 

jojo22

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Sep 21, 2006
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SWEET, let us know what you decide!!!!
 

jojo22

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Sep 21, 2006
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Dixon

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Feb 16, 2006
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You may also find this interesting, might be a way to go, I have heard mixed reviews but all that have had trouble have blamed it on themself as the baffels where not cut to fit correctly (not tight enough)

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Baffles/baffles.htm

the sump is being profesionally built, i am looking into getting the sizes and baffle/compartment info correct before i ask them to make it.
they built my tank so should get the baffles and stuff like that correctly fitted.

i have been reading up on the link you posted and i am looking into both styles of set up with return in the middle or at the end, i can make the pipework to suit and this is not a problem.
dixon
 

jojo22

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What are you finding as pro's and con's of each type??? Maybe we could work some of them out (on both sides of the fence) and help you make you decision easier.
 

Dixon

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Feb 16, 2006
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option 1 inlet/fuge/return
option 2 inlet/return/fuge

i was also going to lose some fuge and inlet compartment size to get a bigger return size after reading about evaporation. i may look inot external pumping.

well so far from what i have read keeping the return at the end in the standard set up is a little harder to set the flow through the fuge and will take a lot more calculating,the pipework will be a lot easier to do for both inlet and outlet as they will be at either end, my weir will be in the middle of the tank at the back.

as for the return in the middle of the sump you have multiple options for pipework although it will be take a lot more pipework to keep my return away from the weir as it will be directly under it. as i will have 2 outlets from the weir i would have one supply the fuge directly with a ball valve to control the flow and the other to go directly to the inlet compartment for the skimmer.

the flow for the first option will be affected totally by my outlet pipe sizes and harder but not impossible to control.
the second option i can control it totally using a ball valve, i decided to have 2 outlets from the weir incase of a blockage if i only had one but can utilise the second outlet for another purpose ie filling and flow for the fuge.

either way can have an overflow from the return compartment back into the fuge due to them being next to each other in both sump layouts.
the outlet pipe from the skimmer on option 2 will have to be longer to reach the fuge or as i am using the skimmer outside the sump can be moved closer to the fuge as the feed tubing is a decent length.
with option 1 the skimmer outlet tube will be next to the both inlet and fuge compartment so a little easier.

what do you all think, am i on the right lines.

i now need to look into exaclty what grows in the fuge to help with the chemical process. anyone got any good links or info.
 

jojo22

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Sep 21, 2006
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I don't get where the skimmer comes in??? Just put that in the inlet IMO. also with the fuge in the middle there would be no reason to run a line from the return to the fuge unless your pump it too strong for your overflow.

As far as keeping the return pipe away from the inlet, a few 45's in the lie and all is well with the benifits far outweighing the flow cost which should me minimal.

You asked and thats what I think, hope it helps!!
 

Dixon

AC Members
Feb 16, 2006
1,804
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Sunderland UK
I don't get where the skimmer comes in??? Just put that in the inlet IMO.

the skimmer will be outside the sump at the front with the feed pump only in the inlet

also with the fuge in the middle there would be no reason to run a line from the return to the fuge unless your pump it too strong for your overflow.

yes this would be for overflow incase the return pump was too strong, not a must but a maybe

As far as keeping the return pipe away from the inlet, a few 45's in the lie and all is well with the benifits far outweighing the flow cost which should me minimal.

yep its not a major problem i may even use part flexi and part fixed pipework to give more flexibility

You asked and thats what I think, hope it helps!!
yep it does and i may go for this option as it seems easier to manage the flow for the fuge for a salt newb like me.
what do you think about using the second outlet pipe directly into the fuge using a valve to control the flow rate
 
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