New 50g Tank - Need Help, Advice and Tips

[salazaar]

I've been researching for the past couple weeks preparing to buy equipment for a new 50g (36 x18 x18) Fish only with live rock tank. I finally have the tank set up and I need to order my equipment but I've read and heard so many different recommendations and everything conflicts so I figured I would try one more forum.
I'm going to be using a 3-4" deep sand base, I'm using Southdown Tropical Playsand for most of the sand and seeding it with a couple bags of Live Sand and then I plan on adding 25-30lbs of live rock (fish only for now).
Filtration is where most of the conflicting opinions come in.
I started off thinking I would get the Emperor Biowheel 400 (rated at 400gph) and the Red Sea Prizm Deluxe Skimmer. I've since heard both good and bads so there are a few others I'm considering can you give me your opinions keeping in mind I'm a college student and I'm trying to hold back costs.

Filtration
Emperor Biowheel 400 (rated at 400gph)
Fluval 404 Canister (rated at 340gph)
Magnum Pro 350 w/biowheel (rated at 350 gph)

Skimmer
Red Sea Prizm Deluxe
SeaClone

I also plan to get 2x Powersweep 228 for my powerheads
and two 200 W heaters

Please let me know what you think and I'll keep you posted as I start to get things going.
P.S. I know a sump would be great but I can't afford one just yet.

Salazaar

 

[kreblak]

Honestly, I would skip the filters and put the money into more powerful powerheads. Make sure you are getting a minimum of 12x water turnover in your tank. You are going to need 600 gallons per hour to avoid such horrid things as cyanobacteria in three to four months. Trust me on this one! Keep your water moving. 12x is the minimum, I actually recommend 17x to 20x. Anyway, standard filters don't help a whole lot in SW. You have to replace the activated carbon every 4 to 7 days, and they really just don't do much to improve water quality.

Skimming, on the other hand, is very important. I recently made the switch to the Prizm skimmer, and I am very happy with it. It skims wonderfully. The only drawback is the noise. I have yet to find a quiet skimmer, though.

The DSB and LR combo sounds good, and should be more than enough for your biological filtration needs. Just don't cycle with damsels. Fishless cycling is cheaper, more effective, and more humane. Add the LR after you have cycled.

Good luck, and welcome to Aquaria Central!

PS- you will hear a lot of conflicting opinions on whether or not to skim or use filters. What I have written are my opinions only, based on my experience. Don't take any one opinion as gospel.

 

[OrionGirl]

Sorry--I was just getting ready to start your thread! I missed the email yesterday. Glad to have you aboard!

For the filters--with enough live rock, they are not required. A cannister filter, run without media for added water movement and to allow you to add media like carbon if needed, is a good idea. There has been a recent complaint against bio-wheels for SW. Apparently, they can contribute to high nitrates, though I don't agree with the proferred explanation that they convert the ammonia and nitrites too quickly. For setting up the tank, I would rather put in some more live rock, and forego the filter for now. Additional live rock will be beneficial for dealing with the nitrogen cycle, and pretty much all fish will appreciate the additional cover.

For cycling, you can purchase uncured live rock and use the die-off for an ammonia source, but this can damage some of the surviving life on the rock. I'm in favor of fishless cycling with some cocktail shrimp from your local deli.

 

[mogurnda]

more noise

Hi Salazar,
You wanted opinions, here are a few.

There is endless controversy about bioballs/biowheels being "nitrate factories," but the main thing is that the biowheel tends to become a useless salty mess in a marine tank. If you take the biowheel out, you can use the filter for added circulation and for carbon. The mechanical filtration isn't necessarily a bad thing either, as long as you clean the pads religiously so that the crud doesn't break down and put nitrate back in your system.

Also, the kind of fish you get will determine how much fitration you want. If you were going for messy eaters like triggers or puffers (I hope not in a 50g), then you will want to have the extra filtration you describe. If you're thinking smaller, tidier fish, that would fit better into your tank, I would agree to dump the canister and add more live rock.

Skimmers. No direct experience with either of your brands, but I have heard awful things about the SeaClone. Kreblak is happy with his Prizm. If you get a small inheritance, I might suggest a RemoraPro from AquaC. You can get away without a skimmer, people used to do it all the time, but it helps a lot, especially when starting a system.

If you're going for live sand, get good stuff. Fresh, well cared-for, with lots of little things in it. You can get it shipped directly to you from the gulf by places like Tampa Bay Saltwater or Gulf View, or you can get the same stuff from Premium Aquatics. Anything that's been sitting in a bag is a bad idea. Also, once you have the system cycled, but before adding fish, you might boost your biodiversity with a kit from Inland Aquatics or Indo Pacific Sea Farms. Another, not exclusive approach is to beg a cup of live sand each from various local people and LFS, to get a little diversity.

Lots of words, hope some of them are useful.

 

[salazaar]

The whole no filter thing is news to me, I think I'm a little too timid to go there just yet, I think I've decided on the Fluval 404, because I've heard that the Emperor can get stuck with the sand and I've started to hear lots against biowheels.
As for the skimmer I'm still undecided there, heard about half/half for and against the Prizm. I just added the CPR Bakpak to my list along with the Prizm Deluxe and the Seaclone. If anyone has any reasons to go with one or the other please let me know.
Oh and I decided to go with 2x MaxiJet 1200's for powerhead, a tiny bit more power and I heard that the Powersweeps, stop sweeping after a month in saltwater.
Just got that, OK I'm down to the Prizm and the CPR bakpak, is the $60 difference worth it for the bakpak, sounds like the Prizm might do the job.

Thanks for the quick responses, I'll keep you posted on what I decide.

P.S - I don't really need to know just yet, but what critters do you recommend to turn over the sand bed. I haven't gotten to researching it yet, but I figure I'll need to know in the next few weeks.

 

[kreblak]

Scarlett hermits and blue legged hermits do a great job churning things up in a sand bed, as do various worms and such. Hermits wil also do a good job cleaning up detritus and uneaten fish food before it has the chance to break down into nitrates. For your clean up crew, it is recommended that you have a number of snails and hermits equal to the gallons of the tank. For you, 50. I prefer a mix of Astrea, Cerith, and Nerite snails myself. They do a great job cleaning up diatoms and hair algae. Turbo snails are what every LFS will recommend, but mine never live for more than 4 months.

 

[salazaar]

Kreblak:

Which model of Prizm skimmer do you use.
Looks like I have a lot of research on critters ahead of me, then I can start figuring out the fish.

Mogurnda:

Thanks for those links, a couple of them have sand starter kits which I might pick up in addition to a bag of live sand.

This is already exciting and all I have is some sand in a tank, but it looks great

 

[mogurnda]

By the way, I have been using the CPR bakpak on a 20, but it would probably be straining on a 50. Yes, it's rated to 50 or so, but I think you have to cut the ratings of all those skimmers in half.

 

[BrianH]

Congratulations on your new tank.

I currently have the same 50gal tank in which I have set up as a reef. After keeping FW fish for a number of years I also had a hard time believing that you could run a SW tank without "traditional filters". My 50 gal reefs' current biological filter is 75lbs of live rock (from gulf-view ) which I highly recommend, and a DSB. Thats it. It works really well, but, with a fish only tank you can include a traditional filter since your inhabitants will not be as sensitive to nitrates. If you do order from gulf-view, I would suggest buying some of their live sand(10lbs or so). They collect it a few miles off the coast and it contains a load of critters. If not, I would not buy the bagged live sand. IMHO it is a waste of money. Just try to get a cup of sand from a few local tanks to seed your DSB.

As for skimmers, I originally started my tank with a prizm. I know you said that you got a 50/50 perspective on this skimmer. Well let me be the 51st to suggest getting a better skimmer. IMHO if you plan on using a skimmer, get one that can handle the tank. I put my prizm on a 10gal and it is ok there. I upgraded to an aqua C remora pro on the 50 and I couldn't be happier. It skims more than twice as much as the prizm and requires no adjustments. Just empty out the cup when needed and wipe it clean with paper towls. That is it. The prizm on the other hand requires daily adjustments to the valve to consistantly produce dry skimmate. I also went through 2 prizm pumps in 2 years(the 1st one being covered under warranty). The issue I see is that many people try to cut costs in the hobby. If you have the funds, get the remora pro w/mag pump. IMHO and many others, it is the best HOT skimmer on the market.

Also, I almost forgot to say that while the bak pak is a good skimmer, many think it is only effective on tanks up to around 30 gal. or so.

Brian

 

[kreblak]

I use the regular Prizm (not the deluxe). I find it does a good job, although I'm not sure it is keeping up with my tank. I have a 46 gallon. I used to have a skilter 400, and the Prizm performs much better than the skilter did. My nitrate levels are down, anyway.