Newbie needing help with cycling

[Turbosaurus]

don't bother buying packaged "bacteria" products- I find they don't work. search here in the state by state forum for local clubs or post a wanted in the swap forum with your location, Im sure someone local will help you out. If you're in the NYC area you can stop by my house for a handful of established media, or someone will mail you some if you pay shipping. It will still probably be cheaper and more effective than the stuff at the LFS that's been bottled for months...

 

[Alannahmay]

if there is no livestock in your tank and the only thing you are caring for is the bacteria that will make your tank comfey for critters one day- don't bother doing water changes now- Leave the ammonia high- go ahead and blast it.

If you see its high, don't add more until it drops, but you won't hurt the filter bacteria by having 8ppm or 12. Don't add more until you see it drop, but there is no need to remove it. Let it ride. I think this is actually a better way to go- if you maintain a larger initial concentration, keeping track of the drop will be easier to do.

I think a lot of the info you get on cycling is too exhuberant.. It often takes 8 weeks+ to cycle a tank if you're starting clean, especially in the dead of winter. The nitrifying bacteria in your tank is the same stuff that rots leaves and dead squirrels into mulch in the woods- its everywhere on earth.. but it makes sense that in the dead of winter there is less of it in the air to seed your tank. If you did this is summer, with your windows open and the ground outside warm and teeming with life, it wouldn't take so long. Its a waiting game, and you want your tank to be able to process more ammonia than your fish will produce- high is good to start.

Do you have a nitrate test kit? or will you rely on your ammonia- its fine to rely on your ammonia kit- but you want to test it daily when it starts to drop and make sure you bump it back near 2ppm for at least 3 weeks past the initial drop. A good rule of thumb is however long it took for your ammonia to drop is how long it will take for the next two sets of bacteria together. Then stop adding ammonia, if you're test kit goes from 2ppm to zero in two days, the 3rd day you can begin to add livestock.

Woah! Thank you so much for all the info. I'll let it ride out from here on and look into seeing if any one will lend me some established material. Thanks to muxh

 

[Kaliska]

Actually high values can impact the bacteria. Your high ammonia probably stalled the cycle. The bacteria don't multiply as fast or take the levels down as efficiently. I find it more common with nitrites than ammonia. I would only put your ammonia at 1-2ppm. You can always increase the amount of ammonia you are adding after the tank cycles so it is prepared for a higher quantity of fish. For now just don't add ammonia. You don't treat the tank with ammonia every day until it is eating all the ammonia you add every 24hrs. Initially you just want enough ammonia to get around 2ppm and then leave it to sit while testing periodically. When you have 0 ammonia then add the same amount you did at the beginning and if it goes away in 24hrs do it again until you get through the cycle. Since you don't keep adding ammonia in the beginning the level should not get high enough to stall the cycle or need a water change but because you have to start feeding the bacteria daily when you have enough the nitrites can build if the bacteria to convert to nitrates doesn't multiply fast enough. That's why it's more common to stall with nitrites. The bacteria can take a few days to a week to recover and move the cycle along at a normal pace again after the water has hit really high levels of ammonia or nitrite.

 

[wesleydnunder]

if there is no livestock in your tank and the only thing you are caring for is the bacteria that will make your tank comfey for critters one day- don't bother doing water changes now- Leave the ammonia high- go ahead and blast it.

If you see its high, don't add more until it drops, but you won't hurt the filter bacteria by having 8ppm or 12. Don't add more until you see it drop, but there is no need to remove it. Let it ride. I think this is actually a better way to go- if you maintain a larger initial concentration, keeping track of the drop will be easier to do.

I think a lot of the info you get on cycling is too exhuberant.. It often takes 8 weeks+ to cycle a tank if you're starting clean, especially in the dead of winter. The nitrifying bacteria in your tank is the same stuff that rots leaves and dead squirrels into mulch in the woods- its everywhere on earth.. but it makes sense that in the dead of winter there is less of it in the air to seed your tank. If you did this is summer, with your windows open and the ground outside warm and teeming with life, it wouldn't take so long. Its a waiting game, and you want your tank to be able to process more ammonia than your fish will produce- high is good to start.

Do you have a nitrate test kit? or will you rely on your ammonia- its fine to rely on your ammonia kit- but you want to test it daily when it starts to drop and make sure you bump it back near 2ppm for at least 3 weeks past the initial drop. A good rule of thumb is however long it took for your ammonia to drop is how long it will take for the next two sets of bacteria together. Then stop adding ammonia, if you're test kit goes from 2ppm to zero in two days, the 3rd day you can begin to add livestock.

I disagree with pretty much this whole post. The heterotrophic bacteria that decays matter in a terrestrial environment are not the same species as the autotrophic bacteria which reside in aquatic freshwater systems and act as our biofilters. They aren't floating around in the air after decomposing a dead squirrel. Please provide some factual evidence of your assertion.

Mark

 

[tanker]

Wesleydnunder (Mark); I read Turbosaurus' post and I cannot find anything wrong with it. Actually I agree with it. Just leave the Ammonia level alone and eventually it will come down. Cycles takes weeks.

Where did she say the bacteria comes from the air?

 

[FreshyFresh]

Maybe a heavy ammonia dose will eventually stabilize, but I experienced mayhem twice when doing fishless cycles by adding ammonia, when trying to dose more than ~4ppm ammonia.

The situation I ran into was, the somewhat high ammonia would result in a nitrite spike so high, it couldn't be read with the API kit, giving a false 0ppm nitrite read. For a week or two I ran this way and the cycle seemingly stalled. I had to do several large water changes to bring the nitrites to a readable level, at which point they were pretty much instantly converted to nitrates.

 

[OrionGirl]

Wesleydnunder (Mark); I read Turbosaurus' post and I cannot find anything wrong with it. Actually I agree with it. Just leave the Ammonia level alone and eventually it will come down. Cycles takes weeks.

Where did she say the bacteria comes from the air?

Direct line: " The nitrifying bacteria in your tank is the same stuff that rots leaves and dead squirrels into mulch in the woods- its everywhere on earth.. but it makes sense that in the dead of winter there is less of it in the air to seed your tank. "

 

[wesleydnunder]

Wesleydnunder (Mark); I read Turbosaurus' post and I cannot find anything wrong with it. Actually I agree with it. Just leave the Ammonia level alone and eventually it will come down. Cycles takes weeks.

Where did she say the bacteria comes from the air?

Jessica, I don't disagree that cycling takes weeks. I think you know by now that if anything, I preach caution and patience. I personally think 12 ppm is way high for cycling but if it works, so be it.

OrionGirl quoted the portion of turbo's post I was referring to.

Mark

 

[Rbishop]

You can read numerous articles on here and at other sites about even using 5 ppm as a starting point for a fishless cycle....8-12 is really over the top. WC to 5 or less is your best bet.

 

[DrgRcr]

Your best bet is to see if someone can give or send you some established media. Even a small piece of seeded sponge or ceramic will almost instantly cycle your tank, as established bacteria will colonize/multiply quickly. This is also the best method if you ever plan on getting more tanks beyond your first.