Pete Rose?

[dwayne]

On this point, there really isn't a HOF board. These guys aren't hand picked. 5 years after you retire from baseball you become elligible for induction into the HOF. The lists you see of possible candidates is really just the front runners because they're not going to list everyone who is elligible.

Ballots are cast by the Baseball Writers Association. These guys typically aren't too swayed by owner's opinions and they have a much better idea than we do of who these players are personally since they work with them. In fact, some argue that Jim Rice has not been inducted because he was not a friend of the media in his playing days.

Most of those writers focus awfully hard on numbers and a player's impact on the game when deciding who they vote for though. I don't think a player's personal troubles enter into it all that often except on players they view as borderline candidates.

Interesting, thanks Tom... I really wasn't sure how a player gets up for nomination... I guess I still don't see how it makes sense to ban him from the HOF since (clearly) Pete Rose's betting - however illegal and baseball-morally wrong it is - had no impact on his numbers... Unless his induction would include some potentially tainted manager stats, the point of his gambling is moot except for the fact that the MLB banned him - and you yourself said that the MLB really aren't the ones who nominate...

Your argument about how gambling affects baseball makes sense though - I never thought of it like that... I still don't think he should be excluded from the Hall of Fame though.

 

[dwayne]

BTW are there any kids cuter than ours??? He's so cute I could just eat him up (I mean Aidan, not Ray... Ray would be too filling!)

 

[tomm10]

Okay, I can see you point but I don't agree. Being HOF worthy isn't simply about numbers.

From the rules for voting on the HOF site:

"5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

I think integrity is a big strike on that list for Rose and character would have to be questioned too. Its all a moot point anyway since the rules on eligibility state:

"3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

1. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
2. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
3. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
4. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
5. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate."

He's out based on rule requirement 5. I'm not willing to change the rules for someone who jeopardized the integrity of the game.

 

[tomm10]

BTW are there any kids cuter than ours??? He's so cute I could just eat him up (I mean Aidan, not Ray... Ray would be too filling!)

Probably not. We are very blessed!

 

[daveedka]

The issue at hand still lies with the fact that Pete Rose was singled out. He cannot be considered because he is banned from baseball. Not because of his actions but because someone in baseball sees his actions as more severe than any number of other crimes committed by other players. I would gladly introduce a little leaugue team to Pete Rose, but would not let them anywhere near Darrel Strawberry, Albert Bell (For their own protection) Or any number of other players. The standards need to be even, no one should be singled out. Either remove all of the criminals already in the hall of fame, and quit allowing new crimanals to be inducted, or put Pete in the hall of fame with the rest of the criminals that had great baseball carreers. Double standards Drive me nuts!!!! No one is defending Pete's integrity, he forfieted that long ago.
Dave

 

[tomm10]

The issue at hand still lies with the fact that Pete Rose was singled out. He cannot be considered because he is banned from baseball. Not because of his actions but because someone in baseball sees his actions as more severe than any number of other crimes committed by other players. I would gladly introduce a little leaugue team to Pete Rose, but would not let them anywhere near Darrel Strawberry, Albert Bell (For their own protection) Or any number of other players. The standards need to be even, no one should be singled out. Either remove all of the criminals already in the hall of fame, and quit allowing new crimanals to be inducted, or put Pete in the hall of fame with the rest of the criminals that had great baseball carreers. Double standards Drive me nuts!!!! No one is defending Pete's integrity, he forfieted that long ago.
Dave

You're missing the point. Baseball does not punish people for doing illegal acts unless that illegal act is specifically banned by baseball (ie. steroid use). Pete Rose could have gambled on baseball legally in a sports book in Vegas and he would still have been banned from baseball for life because no one involved in baseball is allowed to bet on baseball. Rose was not singled out. Ask the "Black Sox", they were banned from baseball as well.

If you want baseball to start punishing players for being immoral or for breaking the laws of the United States or local governements, that is an issue entirely separate from that of Pete Rose.

 

[rosita]

Okay, okay, we all know that in our society we have rules, mores, standards and ethics by which to live. Sadly enough, we are also human, and fall prey to whatever "temptations" come our way. Some are stronger than others, some are WAY weaker. I teach ghetto kids at a ghetto school--high school--and they have very little sense of right and wrong thanks to their parents who were children themselves when they had these kids. They are angry, confused, and have a strong sense of entitlement. I live with poor decisions every day, and "my" kids going to court over gun possession, assault, theft, drug dealing, etc. Pete Rose got caught; Richard Nixon got caught; Bill Clinton got caught. How about all the others who didn't? I'm not condoning poor ethics and low moral standards by any means; I spend every blasted day beating my head against the wall of ignorance, trying to teach some good. Many of those who get caught HAVE done alot of good, and tried to set good examples. As I said, they are only human. Can you throw the rock? They've paid the price; let Pete in. Alot of the above arguments are excellent and I agree. So there. :

 

[vic21]

The great Pete Rose

His nick name sort of says it all!
CHARLIE HUSTLE. Bad deal resulted in one of the greatest ball players ever being turfed out of the game. Rules are rules but they must be equally and judiciously applied/enforced. In this case I am not sure that really happened. Some neo conservative went on a rant that can never be correted!
Do gooders are seldom good doers!
Cheers;

 

[tomm10]

Rules are rules folks. I can't believe this is back. You break the rules, you pay the price. I don't care how good you are.

Shoeless Joe Jackson was one of the best to play the game. He was certainly one of the very best of his time. He fell prey to the gambling scam in the 1919 World Series and even though he was an illiterate, uneducated kid, he was banned from baseball for gambling on it. Buck Weaver was a darn good ball player too who didn't even take part in the scandal. Because he knew about it and didn't report it, however, he was banned for life too. What's more, Weaver appealed the decision every single year of his life and was denied until the day he died. And he didn't even cheat! He just knew about cheats.

Pete Rose ADMITTED to gambling on baseball. He did it, now he has to face the consequences.

T

 

[Unome]

He wasn't on steroids and he never bet against his own team... let him in!!

AND he was never busted for dope 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 times.

He still should not be allowed in because of "He broke the rules". But those who have been busted numerous times for dope(and steroids) should also not be allowed in. What kind of example are they sending to kids?