pH Shock?
- Thread starter rrkss
- Start date
Well being a biologist, I will like to say something regarding sudden changes in pH. Most enzymes have a certain pH range which they work best in. You change the pH and you suddenly denature the protein somewhat (By affecting the hydrogen bonding that determines the protein's structure. This is similar to frying egg whites. What if the protein is used to transfer food across the cell membrane or assist in actively transporting toxic wastes out of the fish? By suddenly changing the pH, you suddenly change the fish's metabolism which could be very stressful. Rapid temperature changes have a similar effect. By gradually changing things, the fish have time to adjust to the changes by either switching proteins to ones optomized for that certain pH/temperature range or producing more repair proteins to assist in fixing the proteins as they denature. Normally a minor change like the one I suggested would not kill a fish but I asked the question since the fish was very ill and I wanted to get ideas of how to make this sudden environment change easier.
true.rrkss said:
you can not suddenly denature a protein somewhat. its complete, and often irreversibe, particularly if the tertiary activation apparatus is not on site (Golgi, if i remember right.)
i'm not following the egg white thing. yeah pH will effect protiens in the phospolipid bilayer, but only if the pH change is in the BLOOD. external pH change has to affect the pH of the blood for this to become a factor.
i would not throw temperature into the mix so readily, as that adds another variable to the equation entirely. agreed on the stress associated with denatured protiens, but again only if the change is in the blood, not the external envirnonments pH.
overall, i agree, and a valid concern with a sick fish. i would really like to see something clinical and/or laboratorical (word?) concerning pH changes on the fishes' ability to regulate blood pH, as that seems to be the real argument.
anyway, i hope your cherries recover. sounds like theyre in good hands.
eric
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Just my 2 cents worth for the discussion.
Ph does not have an effect withing reasonable ranges and I agree with the up to 2-3 points mentioned in the above infromation.
Dissolved solids are the key factor, so understanding what does and doesn't effect Ph and how that relates to other water chemistry is a good idea. Unfrotunately in this hobby many people use the Ph reading to snapshot water hardness, and that is a poor practice.
Changes in dissolved solids do have an effect, and given similar mineral profiles, ph could loosly indicate differences in TDS levels from one tank to another.
Now for the practicality of the original posters situation:
A change from 7.0- 7.2 will not be noticed by anything sick or healthy. My water changes create a bigger fluctuation than that regulary.
Assuming your main tank and your hospital tank were filled with the same tap water, the difference shown is probably one of either Co2 or natural consumption of buffers in the more ative tank.
I really wonder what the Kh is, because 7.0 and 7.2 are lower than I would ever want to see my tanks. Those numbers indicated very low Kh, and Low Kh ='s an unstable environment.
Since you already drip acclimated the fish it doesn't matter except for future information or situations. I do not think there was any need to acclimate the fish but erring on the side of caution has few side effects and none are significant.
Dave
Ph does not have an effect withing reasonable ranges and I agree with the up to 2-3 points mentioned in the above infromation.
Dissolved solids are the key factor, so understanding what does and doesn't effect Ph and how that relates to other water chemistry is a good idea. Unfrotunately in this hobby many people use the Ph reading to snapshot water hardness, and that is a poor practice.
Changes in dissolved solids do have an effect, and given similar mineral profiles, ph could loosly indicate differences in TDS levels from one tank to another.
Now for the practicality of the original posters situation:
A change from 7.0- 7.2 will not be noticed by anything sick or healthy. My water changes create a bigger fluctuation than that regulary.
Assuming your main tank and your hospital tank were filled with the same tap water, the difference shown is probably one of either Co2 or natural consumption of buffers in the more ative tank.
I really wonder what the Kh is, because 7.0 and 7.2 are lower than I would ever want to see my tanks. Those numbers indicated very low Kh, and Low Kh ='s an unstable environment.
Since you already drip acclimated the fish it doesn't matter except for future information or situations. I do not think there was any need to acclimate the fish but erring on the side of caution has few side effects and none are significant.
Dave
Again good luck with your barbs.I read someone on another forum similar to this one (I believe he was talking about altums) was saying that the drip method actually is worse for the fish. I really can't remember much about what he said, except that a quick dump was actually better.
I thought I would post this article written by a fish vet regarding a sudden pH Crash. Its written for ponds but it would apply to the aquarium also.
http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=206&category=12&name=Water Quality
http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=206&category=12&name=Water Quality
