I want to start a FO saltwater tank and maybe add live rock... Im kinda new to the whole thing so i was wondering what i would need.. I already have a 29 gallon tank with 2 HOB filters, i also have araganite. So my question is what else would i need to set up a tank and would it be cheaper for me to just buy a biocube and start one off that set up?
Please Help
- Thread starter 3cuse15
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Might be cheaper with the BC but it might not (depends what you want). The BC is going to be limiting because you're sort of stuck with the lighting, etc. The 29 gallon can be setup however you want (better lighting, adding a sump via drilling your tank or adding a HOB overflow box). Highly recommend using live rock as your biological filtration.
If you are going with what you have you will need LR, heater, powerheads (for flow), test kits, salt mix and RO/DI freshwater source (your LFS or your own filter system). If you use your HOB filter(s) for mechanical filtration, you will want to keep them clean and use media that can be cleaned thoroughly and often and or replaced (probably on a weekly basis). Weekly water changes. Chemipure Elite might also be something for you to research.
Protein skimmer would not be necessary for a FO tank this size but would help with stability of the tank.
If you are going with what you have you will need LR, heater, powerheads (for flow), test kits, salt mix and RO/DI freshwater source (your LFS or your own filter system). If you use your HOB filter(s) for mechanical filtration, you will want to keep them clean and use media that can be cleaned thoroughly and often and or replaced (probably on a weekly basis). Weekly water changes. Chemipure Elite might also be something for you to research.
Protein skimmer would not be necessary for a FO tank this size but would help with stability of the tank.
greech, its my opinion and understanding of any new hobbyist in the marine section, they will most likely over stock and over feed their tanks and a small tank as this will feel the results sooner then a larger tank, his nitrates will almost sky-rocket right off the bat.
Unlike an experience hobbyist who can do this tank without any filter or skimmer, just using water changes. But for a new person to the hobby, it needs or should be as simple as possible so he/she will become confused or discourage in what their doing.
Like have you known any new comer to the marine section that most of them always had issues on their water conditions. So no, I have to say that I disagree that he should use a simple HOB filter. Im not saying it can not be done, I done it many years ago before there were any skimmers, but I gained myself much hands on experience in the hobby for way back then, we had only two ways to learn what we were doing 50-60 years ago and that was from each other who was trying to manage their tanks and the errors in hands on, back then we learn faster then the young folks of today for if you didn't learn from certain mistakes, you lost many marine live stock and the money we spent back then.
It always amazes me somewhat when looking back to then, the way we had it with no books or Internet for some of the first books I think began coming out at LFS around the time the 70s, it might had been the later 60`s but then again, the books during that time were with little data to help anyone gain much from them. We gained much from hands on far more then anything.
Young man, you can do it either way, for i will say this as well, even by having a skimmer in which is far better to have over any HOB filter, you still could have the problems I spoken about, it is the same for others who started a much larger tank and had expensive equipment and they still failed. It like the one who i bought the MR4 skimmer from, he had a 240 gal tank and failed horribly, i asked him if i could see his tank, it was loaded with algae, so much that i couldn't even tell what was in his tank.
The first two main things you need to do is, not have a large bio-load or over feed, the next is you do your weekly water changes with RO water and make larger water changes if you see your nitrates are rising, even twice a week if it needs it. I hope im not discouraging you any, I only want it that your aware of the problems you will face for know this, freshwater fish are more forgiving where as marine fish aren't.
Buddy
Unlike an experience hobbyist who can do this tank without any filter or skimmer, just using water changes. But for a new person to the hobby, it needs or should be as simple as possible so he/she will become confused or discourage in what their doing.
Like have you known any new comer to the marine section that most of them always had issues on their water conditions. So no, I have to say that I disagree that he should use a simple HOB filter. Im not saying it can not be done, I done it many years ago before there were any skimmers, but I gained myself much hands on experience in the hobby for way back then, we had only two ways to learn what we were doing 50-60 years ago and that was from each other who was trying to manage their tanks and the errors in hands on, back then we learn faster then the young folks of today for if you didn't learn from certain mistakes, you lost many marine live stock and the money we spent back then.
It always amazes me somewhat when looking back to then, the way we had it with no books or Internet for some of the first books I think began coming out at LFS around the time the 70s, it might had been the later 60`s but then again, the books during that time were with little data to help anyone gain much from them. We gained much from hands on far more then anything.
Young man, you can do it either way, for i will say this as well, even by having a skimmer in which is far better to have over any HOB filter, you still could have the problems I spoken about, it is the same for others who started a much larger tank and had expensive equipment and they still failed. It like the one who i bought the MR4 skimmer from, he had a 240 gal tank and failed horribly, i asked him if i could see his tank, it was loaded with algae, so much that i couldn't even tell what was in his tank.
The first two main things you need to do is, not have a large bio-load or over feed, the next is you do your weekly water changes with RO water and make larger water changes if you see your nitrates are rising, even twice a week if it needs it. I hope im not discouraging you any, I only want it that your aware of the problems you will face for know this, freshwater fish are more forgiving where as marine fish aren't.
Buddy
The way I see it is that the reasons most newcomers fail is because: (1) the initial tank is too small and the newB either gets board because they soon realize the limitations of a small tank, or (2) they are not committed to doing WC's and other necessary maintenance resulting in a poor looking tank or worse (crash). Of course there is a flip side to this where a newB starts with a large system and underestimates the operating costs of such a system.
Being that I started in this hobby with a 12 gallon all-in-one tank (no skimmer and still don't run one on my current tank), I tend to gravitate towards that mindset when offering my input to someone looking to get into the hobby on a budget. For me, dedicating the time it took to maintain my tank without a skimmer has been much more rewarding than relying on hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of equipment to be a "safety net". Of course this also means that someone that chooses to operate a more simple system must understand that these systems have their limitations and like you mentioned, overstocking and laziness will result in disasterous consequences.
Please don't mistake my ramblings as a slight towards those that do operate much more sophisticated systems than mine. To that end, I envy those that have the means to do just that. I fully recognize the benefits of larger, more intricate systems and hope to one day operate one myself. However, I would not want to discourage someone looking to get into this hobby on a budget. A small, moderate system can be very rewarding if a responsible hobbyist is willing to put forth the effort to maintain it and at the same time, understand the limitations of what he or she is working with.
This is why we're here and these forums exist right? It's not enough for one to come one here ask for a shopping list of equipment and a stock plan and that's all there is to it. Each person will have their own unique experience and by sharing those, others can make their own (hopefully better informed) decisions.
Being that I started in this hobby with a 12 gallon all-in-one tank (no skimmer and still don't run one on my current tank), I tend to gravitate towards that mindset when offering my input to someone looking to get into the hobby on a budget. For me, dedicating the time it took to maintain my tank without a skimmer has been much more rewarding than relying on hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of equipment to be a "safety net". Of course this also means that someone that chooses to operate a more simple system must understand that these systems have their limitations and like you mentioned, overstocking and laziness will result in disasterous consequences.
Please don't mistake my ramblings as a slight towards those that do operate much more sophisticated systems than mine. To that end, I envy those that have the means to do just that. I fully recognize the benefits of larger, more intricate systems and hope to one day operate one myself. However, I would not want to discourage someone looking to get into this hobby on a budget. A small, moderate system can be very rewarding if a responsible hobbyist is willing to put forth the effort to maintain it and at the same time, understand the limitations of what he or she is working with.
This is why we're here and these forums exist right? It's not enough for one to come one here ask for a shopping list of equipment and a stock plan and that's all there is to it. Each person will have their own unique experience and by sharing those, others can make their own (hopefully better informed) decisions.
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It is always a flip side to things in this hobby, one can become bored and then again tired that they need to keep up with their tanks maintenance, it is just like the 240 gal tank i view of the person i bought the MR4 skimmer from, it looked so terrible. Were all different in the hobby and figure we each have a different view point to why some have a great deal of success and others fail. The one thing, i would never suggest a new comer is to go with a large tank as the one im looking to do, it is very expensive and any number of new comers we often never hear from them again because they did quit, I suggest at most for if a new comer has no idea if they will like to stay in the hobby, that the largest tank any of them should start with is no larger then a 55 at best, even a 40 gal breeder, much can be done with these tanks.
Its also best as in what your saying and myself that this new comer gains a first foot hold of doing a marine tank, and that is he/she must be with the upmost desire to succeed and later while gaining much knowledge, they too will one day start building the tank of their dreams and like myself will spend big bucks to make it a reality.
We both no wish to discourage this young man, but are looking to see that if you do move forward into, that you will know just what it is you will need to do. So its should be really helpful towards your success, our ramblings of the hobby in dos and don'ts and such, and in a way 3cuse15, you are having a great deal of opinions in how you can be a more successful marine hobbyist. But whatever you do, if you decide to move ahead and start a marine tank,. you already know of a number of things that will point you in the right direction towards possible success.
beautifully said, it was just as i was saying, only you said it better, I must be getting old :jaw-dropping:
Buddy
3cuse, You have just about everything you need. You will still need salt mix and some live rock.
You will need patience, a willingness to learn and a kind concerned heart for the welfare of your critters.
You will need some more patience
Then you will need drive to go out and earn lots of money to support your new hobby.
Welcome to the salty side
You will need patience, a willingness to learn and a kind concerned heart for the welfare of your critters.
You will need some more patience
Then you will need drive to go out and earn lots of money to support your new hobby.
Welcome to the salty side
PAtience, patience, patience.
Do the research and go slowly. Make sure the creatures you want are suitable for that size tank. Realize there are several differnt ways to be successful, and more than than likely you will incorporate different aspects of different styles.
Personally, I think the best piece of equipment to get is a protein skimmer. I didn't have one for the first six months and suddenly, without warning, my tank crashed. I have a skimmer now for the last five years and haven't lost a fish since then.
Do the research and go slowly. Make sure the creatures you want are suitable for that size tank. Realize there are several differnt ways to be successful, and more than than likely you will incorporate different aspects of different styles.
Personally, I think the best piece of equipment to get is a protein skimmer. I didn't have one for the first six months and suddenly, without warning, my tank crashed. I have a skimmer now for the last five years and haven't lost a fish since then.
I agree that a skimmer can be a great piece of equipment. The good thing is you don't have to buy an expensive one. I got mine off ebay (new, from a person who has a "fish supply store" on there) for less than $75. It's a lot bigger than what I actually need for my tank, but it works great and helps me out, too, since I tend to overstock a little.
I say get you a good heater, some LR (even if you don't want to use for filtration, you'll love the look of it!), salt, hydrometer, one or 2 good powerheads, and the skimmer.
Once you get the water and rock in and the heater set and powerheads going, start researching what fish you want...
This is a great hobby, so please don't get discouraged. Once you get your feet wet you'll love it!
I say get you a good heater, some LR (even if you don't want to use for filtration, you'll love the look of it!), salt, hydrometer, one or 2 good powerheads, and the skimmer.
Once you get the water and rock in and the heater set and powerheads going, start researching what fish you want...
This is a great hobby, so please don't get discouraged. Once you get your feet wet
you'll love it!
