Round 2 **long post warning**

[ukclaire]

Hi,

I can take a picture this evening of the room and a close up of the tank. The tank hasnt moved and the plants are the same as before.

The only one that is different which we dont have now, was a plant that looked like an onion and grew at a fantastic rate...its leaves spread over the top of the water.

I do have a small video of the old fish before any of this happened...not sure of any hosting for it though.

I didnt see them that day - straight down the stairs and ut of the door. The other half had his friends and his son (18 months) around but the kid didnt go near the tank to put anything in - it cant walk yet.

The water change was on the Thursday - all seemed fine, I came back around 4pm and noticed them gasping. Roop said the fish were swimming round at 2pm looking normal.



The air pump is a sealed external unit that plugs into the wall. A tube goes from there into the tank with an airstone on the end.

Claire

Edited to say: decorations are live plants, 2 pieces of slate, 1 bogwood and 2 tuynnels. They will be in the pic I post later and are in the same places as before.

 

[ukclaire]

These two are of the original tank with just the White Cloud Mountain Minnows in. As you can see there are not many plants in there - but at the end there were more plants but of the same variety.

We have the same in the new tank apart from the "onion plant" you can see its leaves, the broad ones) in the close up.

Full Pic

Close Up

I took some pics just now but cannot get them off my phone as I cant find the Bluetooth thingy. Will get some at the weekend.

The Tank is in a corner furtest away from the front enterence ( to the back left of the pic) and the kichen is behind the wall to the right of the tank and the door is about 10-12 feet from the tank.


Regards

Claire

 

[chefkeith]

I hope I’m not way off base here.
Being that clown loaches were added to your tank, I'd say that you had a massive outbreak of ich. All your fish's slime coats were probably tip top, so you had no visible signs of ich. They just got ich in the gills. That’s what the gasping was all about. I've had about a dozen clown loaches die for the same reasons. Gasping air for a few hours, then jumping out of the water, then sinking right to the bottom, then they are officially dead about an hour later.

It’s strange that the ich outbreak was 5 weeks after you got them. I've had outbreaks show after the 3rd week.

Secondary ich problems can be even worse than a quick death.
I had one clown loach that after ich had cleared, 1) swam in counter clockwise circles 2) have a massive seizure 3) sink to the bottom. 4) Breathe rapidly for awhile 5) repeat steps 1 - 4. The poor clown done this for 16 hours a day. I didn't have the heart to euthonize him. After about a week, I gave him the name Maximus (from the movie Gladiator). After 3 weeks he finally died. Amazing fish. I believe the fish was brain damaged from running into the wall of the aquarium when he had an ich itch in its gill. I think this because the fish could only swim in one direction, which was to its left.

You really need to start quarantining your new fish, especially the clown loaches.
Start a quarantine procedure for all your fish.
Example, for Clown loaches-
When you get your fish home, in the travel baggy, for 45 minutes, acclimate fish to the q-tank water. Add fish to q-tank; do not add bag water to q-tank.
Slowly raise the temp. to 85F, and slowly add 1 Tbls salt per 5 gallons of water. Raise temp only 2F per day.
20% Water changes every 5th day (or whenever)
If they show signs of ich, (know the ich cycle, study ich, their lives depend on it) add more salt until you have 1Tbls per gallon, or you can treat them for a minimum of 2 weeks (be careful here) with an anti-parasite medication (like Coppersafe) or a medicated food.
If they never get ich, quarantine them for 3 weeks minimum. If they do get ich, it might take 6 weeks.
Slowly lower the tanks temp and salt concentration to match your main tank.
Take half the water out of q-tank; then slowly add water from the main tank to q-tank to acclimate your fish to main tanks water. Wait a few hours. Then put fish in main tank.
Don't overstock your q-tank either. Q-tanks have to be stress free, w/dim lighting and hiding spots.
Not all fish like high temps, so change your procedure accordingly.

Sometimes you’ll lose fish when q’ing them, but at least your fish from the main tank won’t be affected.

Maximus was in a q-tank when he had ich. I’m sure glad he didn’t infect the fish in my main tank.

Most people here q their fish. You’ll find a lot info if you search the threads here at aquaria central.

 

[chefkeith]

After looking at your tank, here's a few more suggestions-

Is that a 40G long tank? Just a guess, thats what it looks like from the picture. Anyways, it probably only has 30-35 gallons of water in it, minus after all the gravel and decorations.

I really hate to mention this, I really do,
but you might have overstocked your last tank also.

Adult size of your fish-
1 Redtail Shark = 5",
6 Platy's x 2.5"=15",
4 clown loach (will get 12") = 48",
6 Tetras x 2"= 12",
7 wc minnows x I'm not sure but 1" sounds good =7"

That tank was destined to have major problems sooner or later. The clown loaches would of easily out grown the tank in a few years.

 

[CordyRoy]

Did you cycle the first tank? What were the water parameters when the fish died? Nitrites? Ammonia, etc? I know that with Nitrite/Ammonia poisoning, fish can be seen gasping for air at the surface. But you did do water changes, so it seems unlikely. I think the combination of a possible Ich Outbreak and overcrowding are the likely culprits.
Also, you shouldn't be feeding frozen foods every day. Once or twice a week is sufficient while using a good quality flake/pellet in the meantime. I would think that any leftovers from your bloodworm would make the water quality less than optimal.

 

[ukclaire]

Originally posted by chefkeith
After looking at your tank, here's a few more suggestions-

Is that a 40G long tank? Just a guess, thats what it looks like from the picture. Anyways, it probably only has 30-35 gallons of water in it, minus after all the gravel and decorations.

I really hate to mention this, I really do,
but you might have overstocked your last tank also.

Adult size of your fish-
1 Redtail Shark = 5",
6 Platy's x 2.5"=15",
4 clown loach (will get 12") = 48",
6 Tetras x 2"= 12",
7 wc minnows x I'm not sure but 1" sounds good =7"

That tank was destined to have major problems sooner or later. The clown loaches would of easily out grown the tank in a few years.

Hi,
We did have a LOT of gravel in there....in the new tank there is about a quarter of that.

I didnt realise CL got that big. When I was looking them up on the internet it said they got to about a foot in the wild but only 6 inches in Tank situations.

I will post what the new tank is going to have in it soon...still making final decisions. I want another tank for the oposite wall.

Claire

 

[ukclaire]

CordyRoy

They got frozen food every day (apart from one days of no food at all) but it wasnt just bloodworm, it was shrimp, beefheart, daphne etc...a multipack is what we used so they got a wide variety of the stuff. We also had flakes but they didnt like them so it was put in a draw.

Yes we did cylce the tank for 4 weeks before putting in the first lot of fish. See my original post for time scales.

When it happened we took readings and took a sample of water to the fish shop we now use and they spent about 30 minutes doing all sorts of tests on the water.

All the levels were bang on.

I am going to go with poisoning.

Thats just reminded me of another question...

Cheers

Claire

 

[chefkeith]

Originally posted by ukclaire



I didnt realise CL got that big. When I was looking them up on the internet it said they got to about a foot in the wild but only 6 inches in Tank situations.

Claire

There's not much accurate info out there about Clown Loaches. Clown Loaches can get over 24" in the wild and live over 50 years. If given the proper tank size, they'll get to 14" and over 20 years old easily. They are slow growers though, expect the growth rate of about an inch per year until they reach adulthood, which is about 10-12 inches and about 10-12 years.
A few people on the net have large clown loaches.

Here's a few good links for Clowns
http://www.bobd.lunarpages.com/loaches/cind01.html
http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16
http://loaches.com/species_pages/botia_macracanthus.html

 

[ukclaire]

They look cool all swimming together. We did have 4 Cl but I think we will either have 3 or 5 next time.

I dont think it was Ich to be honest, they didnt show any of the signs.

The new fish shop quarentenes the fish for 10 days before they are put on sale anyway and if something then happens they dont sell any more from that tank untill its treated.


Regards
Claire

 

[Slappy*McFish]

Clown Loaches can get over 24" in the wild

I'm curious...what is your source of information for this fact?..as I have never heard this before. Most sources I have ever read claimed around a 12-14" max size(+/-) for clowns in the wild and in large aquaria. I saw one claim of 18".