Tank size vs. Overfeeding

[pesto]

I just read the two threads:
"How can you tell if you over feed?" and "Sticky: Fish size vs. Tank size".

I'm confused.

Overfeeding is a bad, bad problem we can all agree I think, so is overstocking. However, in one thread we agree that fish need enough room to "thrive". In the other, didn't we decided that they only need enough food to "survive"?

I may be wrong, but it would seem to me that their are two main problems with overfeeding. The first is a fat, unhealthy, unhappy fish. The second is water quality.

The first problem is easily solved by monitoring your fishes behavior and knowing your fish. The second is solved by carefully monitoring water quality (no2 no3 etc), and doing responsible water changes as neccessary.

Now we get into the "too many water changes are bad for fish" question. Isn't that because either (a) they might get stressed or (and more likely) (b) the water changes may change the quality of water (ph chlorine etc) and kill the fish? Wouldn't responsible water changes eliminate this?

Therefore, I should think it stands to reason that as long as you are responsible about it you can feed your fish as often as your fish likes, as long as the owner monitors the fish's quality of life. What am I missing?

Meanwhile, I'll keep feeding once a day and changing 10% of water once a month. Maybe with experience I'll answer my own questions!

Thanks!

 

[TKOS]

Well I think that reality will show that people are generally lazy and that it is much easier to tell people that they should under feed than to tell them feed a lot as long as you change the water often. IME people will be diligent for about a week before all that water changing becomes a chore. But feeding is rarely a chore for fish lovers as that is the time of interaction.

If you are the type of person that has the time and desire to do water changes everyday then I say go crazy and feed a lot. But that would be a rare person indeed (I am sure there are some of you out there).

But the less you have to do to the tank will make fish less stressed and more prone to act in a "normal" way.

I doubt there is a clear answer to this but in the wild fish go through feasts and famines. They rarely get a good feed everyday of thier lives.

 

[aquariumfishguy]

Water changes won't hurt fish what-so-ever! If you go excessive like 20-30% every day or so, that might stress them, but a normal water change which includes a vacuuming of the gravel and a w/c of 30% once a week.

A once a month will build up your nitrates slowly (or quickly!) but surely. It is not good for your fish, thats for sure. Is there any way you could change your water once a week?

-Cory

 

[pesto]

I can change it as often as needed .

However, with only one fish I'm not too worried about the nitrate level especially since there are no plants. I am monitoring it closely, though! If I need more water changes I've no problem with that (it's a good thing that the aquarium is near the kitchen sink!). Numerous people have told me that once a month is the best, (althought 10% sounds a little on the slim side for a once per mo change). We'll see. Thanks for the advice I'll certainly keep it in mind!

[edited because I used "however" fare to often, annoying even me.]

 

[aquariumfishguy]

Oh, I'm sorry...I'm new here and I didn't know you only had one fish.

With a stocked tank, you know that once a month wouldn't exactly "cut it", don't you? You seem to be smart and know your fish, I'm just trying to figure out if the people who gave you that info were talking about in your situation or that once a month is enough for a stocked tank.

-Cory

 

[pinballqueen]

I look at it like this: We are trying to replicate wild conditions in our tanks. These wild conditions make for both a variety of food sources and a little less food than the common fishkeeper likes to add. (Don't want them to starve to death, you know...) In my case, it depends on the tank, honestly. My tank with breeding cons gets far more food per fish than my betta does, simply because gravid females need all the nutrition they can muster (I know this because I was recently pregnant myself.. I know what making babies can take out of any mother ).

I only feed my betta and my coldwater tank every other day, and my cons every day.

I do weekly water changes when I can. (If I had the money, I would design a setup that is constantly changing the water, after all, anything that lives in a river would have a ever-changing water supply, so why not replicate that?...) Water changes are never going to hurt the fish in an established tank, because very little of the beneficial bacteria actually lives in the water. Most of it is in the substrate and in the filtration system. Removing the water, and replacing it with properly dechlorinated water of similar temperature, is not going to hurt a thing, no matter how often it happens. When I had the time, and only one tank, I did daily changes.

 

[pesto]

Sorry, aquariumfishguy, I forgot to mention that in the original post. I was getting the weekly change information mainly from generic newbie fish F.A.Qs online and things of this nature. The 10% I got from reading archives on another forum. It sounded more reasonable to me .

 

[carpguy]

No offense, and welcome to AqC , but…

It doesn't stand to reason that you can feed your fish as often as they would like, just as it doesn't stand to reason that you'd let children decide the on the quality and quantity of their diet. Leaving their emotional states to the side, overfeeding can produce unhealthy fish, but should we expect them to get fat? Do cold-blooded animals store fat the way we do? Over at the SkepticalAquarist I found this tidbit:

"Fish aren't geared to deal with much fat and lipids anyway. Surplus fats that can't be burned get stored in the fishes' liver. Eventually the liver tends to enlarge, finally badly enough to make the fish look bloated. Liver disfunction results in retained water, a condition we still might be calling "dropsy" or attributing to constipation."

Definitely not healthy, but also not fat. And maybe also entirely besides the point… how much fat is in that fish food? What else is in there? We know, for instance, that the nitrogen complexes (NH3/4, NO2, NO3) are a result of proteins being broken down. So what if our fish are hoovering away at a lowfat, high protein diet? Won't the bacteria adjust themselves to the bioload and wind up generating excessively high Nitrate levels? Snail, algae, bacterial blooms? What other problems can be traced back to excessive feeding?

Is there an upside to feeding the fish too much food, or would they benefit from what many thoughtful and experienced fishkeepers have established over time is a healthy diet, one that is lighter than most warmblooded aquarists initially anticipate?

Poor feeding practices can lead to water quality issues, and water changes can help to address some (but probably not all) of those issues.

But how did we get to "to the 'too many water changes are bad for fish' question"? Its just not true! Most fishfolk in these parts will recommend 25% weekly changes and many of the planted folk (like myself) have taken to Tom Barr's 50% weekly regimen. I think that 10% a month is not nearly enough, especially if your prone to overfeeding and/or stocking.

Freshwater fish aren't stressed by fresh water! Ideally changewater should be similar in parameters to tankwater, but waterchanges are actually to insure this. The biological processes ongoing in our tanks tend to change water chemistry overtime, and our watersupplies are prone to shifts over the course of the year. Changing substantial amounts of water on a regular basis keeps the tankwater clean and pegged to the local supply.

I'm in favor of trying to stock to reasonable and healthy levels; keeping the diet sufficient, varied, and healthy; and to keeping the water clean and chemically balanced by changing it regularly. I've read plenty of threads over the last year or so detailing various tank disasters and die-offs. It seems to me that good basic practice can help with a lot of the basic and common problems…

HTH