The Myth of Fossil Fuel

[jennypenny]

Sorry about my blank stair up there, my comp was just being crazy for a moment.


BTW I do not think that there is any question that nature would survive man-made (or enhanced) global warming. I think the bigger concern is what organisms will be the most effected, and how will the temp change effect people. Especially when it come to crops and water front property. Frankly, people often have the bad habit of put buildings near water that will eventually move. Societies will most like have to become more adaptable sometime. Also I think that if we have the chance to slow climate change, without destroying our economy, we should do so. A slower change will give us and nature more time to adapt gradually. Slow change is typically less painful then fast change.

However, I agree that a lot of the specifics about global warming is up for debate. It may take generations to gain a good understanding of the process. But shouldn't we be careful and forward thinking if we have the chance?

 

[anonapersona]

On that I cannot comment, someone who's done more research in the field of oil drilling and oil & gas exploration would need to comment. However, given the relatively small times that I've heard of oil exploding through the earth's crust to come spewing forth in a veritable fountain, I'm guessing that any replenishment is happening at a very slow rate. Just hypothesizing on the assumption that Gold's theory is correct, though.

Of course there are the LaBrea Tar Pits where oil does come bubbling up, but, I can say that I have seen, in water driven oil reservoirs, that late term production can last, at very low rates, much longer than anyone expected. We think this is due to the flow of water dragging some additional oil out of each pore space, kind of like wringing soap out of a sponge, there is always just a tiny bit more.

When we calculate the amount of oil in an area, we measure the pore space in a place or two and make an assumption that it is the same everywhere (but it is not) and then we guess as to how big the area to be drained might be (but we don't know), and the fraction of oil that will actually flow from there to here (another guess). How big is the area from which flow actually occurs and how much oil sticks in place is a big fat guess, guided by experience, but always subject to revision as data is collected.

[edit to add] It may appear that a reservior is "being refilled from below" when guess A, B, or C, may have been incorrect. Certainly there are plenty of reservoirs that die prematurely, sometimes indeed that petroleum may have migrated to another zone higher along a fault line or even along the wellbore itself. I think that overall, reserves are more often decreased, not increased due to these surprises.

Often, the difference in the estimates is due to when the area is no longer economic to produce. The cost of the manpower to run equipment and the costs to process and transport, and taxes and overhead costs, always determine the endpoint, after that point it is a money losing deal to operate and you try to sell to someone who can do it cheaper or just plug it. Without profit, oil cannot flow.... just remember that as they start taxing the oil companies.

 

[slipknottin]

I agree Joe, the earth itself is very solid, and there is probably nothing we can do to harm the earth. But we can certainly harm all the living things on this planet. The PT extinction had a 70% die off of terrerstial life, and 90% of marine life, though there are quite a few various theories on what exactly caused it, one of the most notable is one that concludes that volcano's caused the earth's temps to rise by 5 degrees. 5 degrees may have caused the most massive extinction ever to take place on our planet.

 

[125gJoe]

.... Without profit, oil cannot flow.... ...

Without oil, there are No profits at all... Put a "squeeze" on oil, and everyone pays - big time.

People need to "wake up" and watch the price of gas. Now that prices went sky high, they dropped back down recently. But they most likely won't return to 'normal' prices
Inflate the price of gas, then slowly drop it, but not quite what it used to be...... Who will even know it?? "It's the 'normal' price of gas now.." "That derned Katrina really put us in bad shape.."

The price we pay for gas remains incredible...

(I am not sure how the U.K. economincs/politics play into their price of petrol, but in comparison to U.S. dollars it may nearly equal out within their cost of living..)

------

Venezuela, Caracas $0.12 a Gallon (as in twelve cents..)

:huh:

:thud:

___________

__________

 

[anonapersona]

where has all the oil gone?

Interesting data from Oct Consumer Reports "Fuel Economy - why you're not getting what you expect"

[snip]For the nation, where the fleet average fuel economy is near its lowest point in 17 years, the findings suggest that the country is far short of its enegy goals. [snip] Vehicles have also changed [in addition to more city driving and resulting low fuel economy]. Computerized engine systems have improved effiency, but the potential fuel savings had been traded for increased engine horsepower. Since 1981, housepower is up 89 percent for cars and 99 percent for trucks. Automatic transmissions, air conditioning, four-wheel drive, and bigger, heavier vehicles are also more common, all of which burn more gas. Moreover, vehicles burn up to 10% more fuel per mile simply by traveling at today's faster highway speeds. [snip] In 1975, passenger cars got only 14 mpg on average, light trucks just 10.5. [snip] If consumer demand were not a consideration, light trucks could be getting 28 mpg and cars 38, says John German, manager of Honda's environmental and energy analysis. [end of uotes]

The price we pay for gas is mostly of our own choosing, due to the miles we chose to drive, the weight of the vehicle, the horsepower, the special gas guzzling options. Reduction in demand is an awesome tool in a free market. If prices are too hihg, try to drive less, it really works. We were lucky during the hurricanes, in that Europe had excess supplies of gasoline that were sent here to help -- amazing but true. Things would have been much worse had that excess not been available.

A bit of advice, if that new storm Gamma looks like it is going to enter the Gulf, I suggest that you fill up the gas tank early, while gas is still cheap, and keep it topped off. It seems too cool for a hurricane but the Gulf production areas cannot take even a good tropical storm right now.

 

[125gJoe]

....
The price we pay for gas is mostly of our own choosing, due to the miles we chose to drive, the weight of the vehicle, the horsepower, the special gas guzzling options....

I think Gamma will have no effect as cold fronts will keep it down south. As for the price of gas, we don't have a choice. It's what the corporations want to charge us...

But I agree, we can choose what we drive.

---

> Toyota Corolla vs. Dodge Charger <

 

[anonapersona]

As for the price of gas, we don't have a choice. It's what the corporations want to charge us...

But I agree, we can choose what we drive

I meant the collective "we" for if everyone just saved 10% by either attending to maintanence like tire pressure or by slowing down to below 60mph or by reduced miles driven or by carpooling once in awhile that would decrease demand enough to affect price somewhat.

Actually, a lot of the recent drop in prices are due to the increasing ability of China to supply its own factories. There was a point at which they were advancing so rapidly, with GDP at 9% rate or better, that the factories were unable to get enough electricity and many factories and hotels and such had to use diesel generators to keep open, this pushed on the supply/demand balance and so prices rose. China, along with Libia, and maybe Russia to some extent are the only countries with rising oil production.

 

[anonapersona]

another article from newspaper

Thought you'd find this interesting.

"Energy Companies to get money back"

"A federal judge ordered $1.2 billion in bonus payments returned to energy companies that held leases to drill for oil and natural gas off California for decades but whose production efforts were stymied by regulation.

Judge Eric Bruggink of the Court of Federal Calims in Washington said units of The Woodlands-based Anadarko Petroleum Corp and 12 other companies are entitled to the return of fees for 36 leases since 1968. Laws passed by Congress to limit energy production close to U.S. coastllines violated the lease terms, Bruggink wrote in an order issued this week.

Other plaintiffs in the suit include Houston-based Plains Exploration and Production Co, and Noble Energy."