White Spots/Lumps

[Bellia]

hello all,

I am not new to fish or ponds but I am baffled.

I have 2 Fantails, 1 Comet, 6 Shubunkins, and 3 Koi(I have others but they are not the issue right now)

The Koi are all new this year, the others I have had for a year, they are all apx 8 inches long, except for the fantails who are shorter, but by no means small, and my 3 baby Shubunkins who are about 4 inches.

A month and a half ago I transfered the fish all out to the pond. All winter they lived in my 55 gallon tank. The pond is over 150 gallons with the rock in it.

I decided to sell the fantails to a friend. I had been watching them for a few days putting off catching them, I noticed the male fantail had white spots, little lumps on him. And that same day I noticed my biggest Koi biting my female Fantail. She had a good sized sore on her back.

The next morning I caught them and also noticed all my others seem to have something wrong with them, So I caught all but the koi, who seem to be fine, and brought them in to the 55 gallon.

All of them but two of the baby bunkins have spots or sores. I thought it was ick, but it doesn't look like ick. They are small white lumps. Also my other small bunkin has a huge hole in its side, and the biggest bunkin has a sore on its side that started looking like a small scratch and is now bloody and swollen. This morning my comet's lips are swollen and it also now has a white spot on its head.

They are all swimming fine and love to eat.

They were having a big spawing fit a couple weeks ago, and I watched the koi follow them around seemingly eating the eggs. but otherwize not bothing them.

The closest I can find to thier spots and the fat lips is Koi Pox. But I was unsure if that could be it as I don't know if it can happen to non koi. And the koi are perfectly healthy it seems.

I don't know how to give a salt bath or I would try that. I just don't want to burn them with the salt.

I started using Melafix yesterday.

Anyone have any ideas?

An no I don't test my water I never have.

Thanks

Bellia

 

[didy]

Sorry about your fish problems. Sounds like it could be Columnaris.
http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/disease/freshwater/columnaris.html

 

[Jessu]

Heres some useful links to help diagnose your fish.
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/symptoms.html
http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html

 

[Bellia]

Thanks guys I will check those out.

 

[Bellia]

Good news, it appears my fish are getting better, tho my female fantail is bumming into things and swimming like she scared of something. Kinda Darting around.

I kept up with the Melafix, and added 5 tablespoons of salt to the tank, and today the male fantail and the two biggest shubunkins who had the big white knots in their tails, now have holes where the knots/lumps used to be.

The Bunk with the big hole in its side seems to be growing skin again but now the fin that touches the hole is ragged and nasty looking. the Comet doesn't look anybetter around the lips, they are bloody looking now, but the spot of her head is almost gone.

And the bloody spot on the side of my big Bunk is looking better. I don't know if it was the medicine or the salt, but I medicated again today, and added another 5 tablspoons of salt. on Tuesday I think I will do a 20-30% water change and switch to a copper med, and then Maracyn 2 after that if needed, and as they get better put them in the pond I just finished today, its about 70 gallons, and empty besides 2 tadpoles and plants.

Sense the Koi seem to be the ones causing all the trouble. lol. they can have the other pond to themselves.

 

[Flaringshutter]

Bellia,
You really, really, really need to test your water. In the pond, in the tank, everywhere. I cannot stress this enough. You say you never have tested the water. You might have been able to get away with it until now, but water is a much more complicated thing that you might think.
Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, ph levels, etc. cannot be guestimated by just looking at the water. With koi and goldfish, it is absolutely essential to test the water. They produce so much waste that your parameters can go awry without any notice. You'd never know unless you tested.
Testing is even more critical when diseases or infections pop up like this. It does sound like columnaris, but we can't really help you until you can give us some parameters to work with.
Nitrates could be poisoning the fish, or ammonia. You could have had a drastic pH change that stressed the fish. You might have chlorine in the water. We won't know without a test. It is essential to the health of your fish.
Please get a complete test kit, test the water, and post the numbers.
Also, if you could let us know:

-Where did the koi come from- a breeder? A pet store?
-Did you quarantine these fish?
-How often do you change your water in the pond? In the tank?
-What are you feeding them?
-Did you remove uneaten eggs or change the water after the spawning?
-What kind of filtration do you have in the pond? In the tank?

An issue that is probably contributing to the infections is that your pond is far, far too small. The pond would be fine for the shubunkins. Alone. You want to aim for about 20 gallons for the first goldfish, 10 for each after that while they are small. Once they grow to 8 inches or so, more like 30 gallons per fish. The koi will need 100-200 gallons per fish, depending on the size of each fish.
So I'm going to guess that your nitrates and ammonia are probably much too high, due to the overcrowding.

Finally, DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT CHANGE MEDICATION MID-TREATMENT. Finish the course of meds, then if that doesn't work, try another. But a medication may not seem like it is helping, while it actually is. You need to stick with it as long as the directions tell you to. Otherwise you could sicken the fish even more.

To help with healing, bring the heat up to 75 over 48 hours. I'd say warmer, but we don't know what the problem is yet, and with columnaris too much heat can actually worsen things. Add aquarium salt (not table salt). That will help the fish for now until we can root out the real problem.


Here is a great koi/goldfish pond checklist:
http://www.fishbug.com/files/2005checklist.pdf

Let us know how things progress.