all about hyposalinity

O

oddsbotkins

AC Members
Oct 20, 2007
9
0
0
53
Ok here we go, because so many people were interested....
When most people say salinity. What do you think?
What about density?
"density" is a measurement of how dense the saltwater is, by measuring the ammount of dissolved salt in the water. Most people call this salinity. Well, yes it is, but the scientific term is "density", not salinity.
As we all know, the more dissolved salt in the water, the heavier, or dense the water is. Dense water weighs more, and is harder for objects to move through, and harder for light to penetrate the depths.
Every book, and everyone you talk to will usually tell you to keep a density of 1.020-1.025. Why? Because the density of natural seawater is apporx. this. The problem with this is as follows. The oceans make up over 70% of our earth. The amount of dissolved salt is spread over the entire ocean. If you shrink the ocean and parameters to fit into your aquarium, the density is no longer 1.020-1.025. It would be much much higher. This also goes for calcium. Measure natural seawater for calcium, what do you get? Approx 400 ppm? give or take. Is this why you try to keep your calcium levels around this. This measurement is a false measurement. The 400 ppm of calcium, is what is LEFT OVER after all life form have used thier daily amount. If you could measure the amounts of calcium, before it was used, it would be in the 500-600ppm range.
Ok. got a bit side tracked there. Back to density. You can keep your reef tanks at a density of 1.020-1.025 or even higher if you like, with little to possible no problems. Why shouldn't you. Disease control!!!!
The most common disease in a tank is what???? That's right campers...it's cryptocaryon, aka ick, white spots. Marine velvet is possibly the second... anyway, what is the best way to treat ick.... correct again, either a copper dip type medication, or hyposalinity, or hypodensity. when you put your fish in the hypo, it does fine, a little shocked due to the sudden change. This shock we see is the main reason people dont belive fish can survive in hypo.
When dipping your fish for ick, most of the research will tell you that a dip from 10-30 minutes is needed to have any benificial effects. A two minute dip, just doesn't do it, ick will come back. But.... if you dip for 30 minutes, ick is gone, and as long as the tank is free from the parasite, than no more problem right....
So, if a fish can survive a sudden dip, and shock of hypo, for 30 minutes and survive, than why cant it live in hypo... it can, for it's entire life.
Now lets back track a bit. Why is it, that crypto is mainly a tank disease, and very rare in open ocean? Anybody....anybody...
Ok. lets move on. Marine fish can not only survive in low density water, but they can survive for their entire life span. Main benifit, is only that you effectively reduce chances of parasite, and reoccurring infections.
Instead of having a density of 1.020-1.025, try dropping it say to 1.019 on your next water change, watch and see what happens. Nothing right, fish do fine, corals are still alive, sponges still kicking. Nothings dead. Next water change drop it to 1.015, same thing no major changes, but you will notice your corals feed better, have a bit more color...why? Less dense water allows more light to tank. Also less dense water flows easier, better flow rate, and water movement, more oxygen. If your happy here, no problems keep your tank at 1.015, but you can drop it even a bit lower to 1.010-1.012. I have never gone any lower than this.
So lets review a bit. Less dense water= more light, more oxygen, better water flow. What part of that would your fish not like?
Ok now the reefers are squeeming in their seats, saying my corals are gonna die, because its to hard to keep a safe level of trace elements.
I use a ph rock (invented by a science guy... owner of hyatt distributors hdltd.com) The ph rock is a white mineral rock that has 18 trace elements with plenty caco3 and mgco3 for the corals!!! In a saltwater tank, the ph rock maintains a proper ph level all the time, no other buffer supplements needed, ever. Ph maintains around 8.0-8.4. The ph rock also raises the calcium levels to 450 ppm +.
I also use a SEA LAB NO.28 trace blox. Dissolves only as needed. No measuring trace elements, no worry, ever. (this information i am copying from hdltd for proper numbers)
trace blox are compatable with all types of marine salt, and natural seawater. Compatable with all convential filtration materials... live rock, live sand activated carbon, bio media...) Elements provided (in ppm)

alumium 0.01
boron 4.6
calcium 400.00
selenium 0.004
chromium 0.00005
silicon 3.0
cobalt 0.00005
silver 0.0003
copper 0.003
srtonium 8.0
molybdenum 0.01
nickle 0.002

the only thing I add to my tank is a little bit of iodine, everything else is covered either in the ph rock and trace blox.

So that's how I do it. It's not difficult. Oh someone asked what types of stuff do I have.. multiple tanks but here goes. Ocellarius clownfish, purple firefish, manderians (both blue and green) damsels, long nose butterfly, wrasses, and seahorses (kuda's, kellogi's ) Inverts are various anemoneas, long and short tenticles, carpets, (like to find a nice rose if anybody knows of some!!!) electric flame scallops, coral banded shrimp, decorator crabs, anemonea shrimp, camel backs, lots of gorgonians, ball sponges, tree sponges, decorrator sponges, fire sponges (I love sponges) Lps corals..brains, (open and closed) sps acropora's montipora's pocillapora's seriatapora's, softies, branching, tounges, xenia's, shrooms, feather dusters brown, and red lots of other little stuff. (sorry it's getting late, and I'm geting tired) I also culture my own brine shrimp, rotifers, copepods, and three types of phytoplanton. I supplement with live mysis shrimp, and tigger pods.
Well that's about it. Thanks for playing along. (started my first tank when I was twelve.. it was a seahose tank, had to feed them live guppies... saw them in a crappy fish store, and had to have them for my birthday) been addicted ever since. sister is a marine biologist, working for a large aquarium... (she plays with whales) my whole family has tanks, even my (almost) seventy year old mom,.... she loves clownfish.

Well any questions go ahead and ask, it will take me awhile to answer, got a large job out of town, so will be hoteling it for about 3 weeks maybe a month, but when I get back around xmas, I will try to answer all questions.
Sorry about the crappy font, don't like it either, thought something was wrong with laptop, but it's this "verdana font".
 
So I'm guessing no snails, shrimp, crabs, etc.?

On the disease issue I do agree hyposalinity is great, but if you use proper qt methods you won't have ich in your tank either. If you did get ich for some reason oh lets say 20 years ago you'd have ended the parasite's lifecycle about 19 years and 10 months ago. Why continue?

Maybe your tank is an anamaly. Maybe your tank isn't doing as well as you'd like to think. Perhaps lifespans have been shortened and deaths were chalked up to other reasons. In any case it sure isn't an approach I'd recommend, especially when disease can be handled via responsible husbandy.
 
I would agree..I really dont see any reason why you want to have your tank running as continuous hypo. Basic qt methods are tried and tested and work fine, and, touch wood, i have never had an infection or paracite in my systems..Proof is in the pudding there..

Personaly, i believe i should be keeping my system in the right level of parameters to which the fish normally live, and not intentionaly run a system such as this, and experiment with running tank parameters way way different that what the fish, corals or inverts "should" be kept in..I dont see the benefit your getting from subjecting your fish etc to this system, as long as a standard qt is done..Does this mean that you dont qt your new arrivals?

Well, we are all entitled to run our tanks how we see fit..

Hope it all works out for you
 
Yes I have qt tanks, two in fact. Yes, I have various shrimps crabs, snails, all the basic "clean up crews like a "normal tank", why run a tank like this, I don't know, because it works. How does one define a healthy tank, opinions here vary... mine would be that your fish have vibrant colors, eat very well; mate or spawn, and live for years. Oldest fish I have at the moment I think is about 6-7 years that I know of. My average lifespan, hard to tell dont lose a lot of fish or critters, I say for the fish 5+ years, tanks are healthy enough for seahorses to mate. How does one judge a healthy coral, when it has beautiful colors, grows at a consitent rate, needs to be trimmed back due to growth.
How many live close to the ocean. Me right on it. If you can go to your local bay, or beach, and measure the density at high tide, low tide, then plot it against the moon cycles, new moon, full moon. Got a heavy rain, go measure it again.
Density is not a constant, expecially up here, with the snow melt/ice melt.
What is normal (for the fish/corals) about being put in a glass bowl? That is not their normal lifesyyle. We are not recreating nature. We are doing our best to trap it, and do our best to make it survive, and thrive. Unless you are using various flow patterns to mimic the change of tides (4 times a day), accounting for the moon cycles, (becauce of course tides change drastically with the lunar cycle), then we are using artifical water, lights, and filtration systems that are not "normal" to the fish. The chemicals some people use certainally are not normal.
10-15 years ago people thought it was a crazy concept to be able to keep corals.
10-15 years ago, who would have thought that so many people could be successful in keeping keeping corals; that we would be trading them like baseball cards?
My concepts are not new, not cutting edge, they are old; and they still work.
I told you that some would think I'm nuts, so be it. My tanks thrive, very little maintaince needed.
 
Guys before anyone else bashes this guy.. I personally am interested in this theory.. Isn't that what we cultivate around here? At least I thought so...

You raise some important questions Grins, ones that I've had as well about longevity of live stock etc. However this theory on the surface does make some sense. I am not so sure about the calcium simply due to the fact that while there are things in the ocean using calcium it is a constant use not a I'm gonna use what I need and then just quit. Also the replacement of calcium is constant through rain and run off etc etc.

But science and husbandry is an ever changing thought processs.. Look at where we were 20 years ago in fish keeping and where we have evolved to today.. There may be some merit here and I think we need to hear him out.
 
oddsbotkins said:
I told you that some would think I'm nuts, so be it. My tanks thrive, very little maintaince needed.
Click to expand...

I don't think your nuts.. I look at everything with an open mind. It is the curse of being a Libra. I would like you to post more though about what your mechanical set up is... What you do for filtration. How often you perform water changes. You discussed dosing but with what you were saying about keeping your calcium at 500 to 600 and you using those products that out of the box keep you at 450 you must be dosing something correct?
 
see i understand that ich and other crap cant survive in hypo SG.

but im just not getting how the zooanthiellea (i cant spell) algae, the nitrifying bacterias, and inverts are "thriving"

so what things do you have in the hypo tank, or are all your systems run hypo?

also the whole time release block thing. never heard of that tactic. and as far as you being able to maintain calc and mg at any sort of acceptable levels @ that SG, im pretty sure its not possible.

youd have to dose so much calc that your ph would be outta wack. but at your SG, i dont think that the water can saturate w/ enough mg to maintain those calc levels.

and i really doubt that the density of water @ 1.025 is all that much more dense than1.012?
its like the weight of the salt yo.

so yo're saying that a half cup of salt per gallon weighs so much more than a quarter cup of salt that it makes the water soooooo much denser that corals look better, and pumps work better? :confused:

my pumps seem to push vinigar, FW BW SW and alchohal about the same.


id challenge you to hop into the chemistry forum on RC with Dr. randy holmes farley and ask him to give you a phd opinion of the chemical makeup of salt water. You can also ask about the relation between SG and the waters ability to absorb chemical compounds

Id also like to know how are you doing top offs?

also id like to see some tank pics, because i doubt your tank is thriving, rather surviving
 
heres a good vocab word osmotic pressure

now think about that in relation to SG.


and then dont forget evolution. (because hey, a trout will swim in the ocean!)
 
All good points people, I certainly understand the disbelief. Go check out hyatt's ideas at hdltd.com, and learn for yourselfs. Theres a reason the guy was up for the nobel prize.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom