Mafia #18 The Santa Game

Hmmm, no posts from CL in about 24 Hours. Is he an evil laying low now hoping the heat will dissipate or is he an innocent who is upset about getting voted? You would think if he was innocent he would have tried to post something to try and stop the votes once they started picking up yesterday.


Grins, if you are an innocent, it is your job to scour the thread for suspicious posts. Not every post that seems suspicious will be made by an evil, but it will not hurt to question the poster. As a matter of fact it helps me to get a better feel for players when they do answer me. And when they don't it tells me something as well. I don't usually like to pick on newbs, but it is day 2 now and you should be getting the hang of the game. I was evil my very first game, so I will not let pple play the newb card all game long without saying anything.
 
Unfortunatly, we cannot do that while there is still evil scum in the town..you lack of door bashing and tree shaking to confront, question or build a case is disturbing indeed...are you purposly just trying to be hidden in the side lines? This also goes for Gup aswell, very very quiet...

Above niko is questioning Grins and brings up her "lack of door bashing"...come on! It was her first day for crying out loud, I cant believe you expect someone to be so confident as to start making cases day 1 of their first game. I have no doubt in my mind that you would bring up something about how they seem to be playing well as a newb so they must be getting coached. This is the post that basically started the Chas/Niko vs. Grins debate about something I find trivial.

Blue, here's an exchange between you and Niko. Let's pretend that I'm a moron (probably not such a stretch for some)... can you please explain to me what you're trying to get at here? Maybe it's just a 'guy' thing, but I truly don't understand what you're asking, and what response you were hoping for.

I agree mad. I have been reading through the exchange and am still trying to figure out what the heck blue is getting at. I makes me wonder if she is just trying to pull something out of thin air to use against niko...
 
Above niko is questioning Grins and brings up her "lack of door bashing"...come on! It was her first day for crying out loud, I cant believe you expect someone to be so confident as to start making cases day 1 of their first game. I have no doubt in my mind that you would bring up something about how they seem to be playing well as a newb so they must be getting coached. This is the post that basically started the Chas/Niko vs. Grins debate about something I find trivial.

I agree mad. I have been reading through the exchange and am still trying to figure out what the heck blue is getting at. I makes me wonder if she is just trying to pull something out of thin air to use against niko...

JP...i see the point your making there mate, i realise i did go a little bit hard on Grins..Appologies out to Grins..
 
yeah, but they didn't make it a point to come out and say that they didn't find CL scummy afterward.... IMO your case against Niko was pretty weak. C'mon, he said he was innocent, yet invited you to investigate him? CL was interested in chasing down Blitzen (as opposed to scum) and when voted for by Coler, he voted for himself (and unlike LG and Beth, who claimed confusion, CL claimed that he did it as a fact-finding mission).

One other question... Regarding your post from Day 1 (where you told Niko that you had considered switching votes), you later told me that you had considered switching your vote to Coler. Why in your early post on Day 2 did you only mention Chas and Niko as suspects? Apparently Coler had made it onto your radar by then...
Mad, however you find my case for Niko is fine, I accept your opinion, but my opinion is different from yous. That, I accept too... maybe you might. As I have said in games past, I don't expect everyone to have the exact opinion I do, that's why it is important to put out our thoughts so we can discuss them.... because of the diversity of opinions. I still think it's a pretty good find. In my eyes, Niko certainly screwed up and his trying to weasle out of it only made it worse. The back-peddling was clear as day.

To answer your other question. The reason I never mentioned Coler as being one of my top suspects is because he wasn't at the time. My top concern at the time was Charlie and Niko. Are they still suspicious to me, sure they are, you bet. I nearly switched my vote for him, I nearly did for G too, if you must know but something told me she was simply having a bad day. I try to list those who are most suspicious to me, not those I am simply having knee-jerk reactions to or am not so sure about. Look what happened last game, they were completely blindsided.
Ok...i waited till the end of day 1 as i wanted to see what posting patterns changed, and i feel that they did, untill it was mentioned by me..how strange..its like they knew i was on about them which seemed to bring them out in the open and comment on it..As i said in day 1, there may be nothing in this, its a hunch, but a hunch which is backed up with quotes to show it..
how very convenient, Niko.... you searched long and hard and worked on your creativity for this case. I find it a sad attempt and evidently, I gave you more credit that this post makes you out to be. You go after those who are questioning you. Not very original.

Up to the point of when JM retired from the game, your were pretty vocal towards me DD, then strangly enough, JM goes and you go quiet..hmmmm..thats a little odd really..its as though your entire game plan changed..I have gone through and pulled up most of DD's posts except the ones prior to JM leaving us, as we all know how vocal she was on the first part of day 1...
Niko, I stated my case against you and that was it. Very vocal to you until Judge left? What more of a case did I bring up about you more than the one you kept tripping over? I wasn't intentionally scoping out your posts to see where I could find mistakes in you only as you are doing here. I stated my case, you confirmed my thoughts, I voted, what more is there to say. I went quiet during dinner and during night. If you must know, I also had a meeting last night concerning the Board. But thats neither here nor there.

JM is gone, the posts towards me have stopped..
Please, Niko... how many times are you going to say this... are you trying to convince others of this weak reasoning or are you trying to convince you that it's great that you think you found something that you can out on me so your buddies and you can high-five it all in chat?

Focus changed away from me onto coler...
Correct, I don't keep my sights on one person because the way to play the game is to find the elvES Niko.... not just set your sight on one person, turn on the tunnel vision and stick with that til night. What is that going to get us as a town aside from taken by the elves?

This is where i noticed a split..Blue and DD no longer really seem to be singing off the same sheet...Blue now seems to be working on her own, saying her own thoughts...this is something that struck me as strange as there now seems to a split between them..Blue, i feel is innocent..
How interesting. I am more interested in why you seem so focused on both us. It can't be because we both voted you, noooooooo.

Again, no more mention of me...
Niko, you really should take that shovel.

Another post that is not game related, there were a few, and i just felt these were to keep her face on the thread to not look obvious as changing pattern..
yes, my few were to help grins with the post counts, to wish Judge well, say sorry to G about the pet incident and to hope beth was feeling ok since she was taking vic's, apparently she was hurt. Sorry for being human. Let me remind you too that you were the one who asked about the white screen prior to me questioning about what it was supposed to do.

Oh look, she decides that a mention is needed about me...why no more mentions before when you were strongly convinced that i was evil? If you were that convinced, why suddenly move the focus away from me?
Niko, how many times do I need to explain the same thing over and over to state my reason for voting for you? I am not going to state in ever post I make my reasons for it or for why I believe you ARE evil.

Again, this is another one i feel where Blue no longer seems to be working with DD..
Blue was doing a good job, she was looking at "postings". Looking for the elves. As was I, but you condemn me for not solely sticking to you....

And funnily enough, as soon as i mentioned that i feel someones posting methods have changed, she comes back out in the open and starts to put on the "Your being anti-town" routine...quite convenient indeed. You were the reason i did not want the town to be aware of the perticular person..If i had called you out straight away on this, then your posting manner would changed straight away, back to how it was before...as it was, i left it and not said who, and you continued on without really mentioning me much at all in fact..
When you mention you feel someone's posting had changed, you admitted to keeping it to yourself. Anti-town movement if I ever saw it. Regardless if it was me, blue, G, whoever, I think you should have been forthright and explained your reasons instead of taking half a day to try to squeeze out ridiculous findings. So tell me, how was my posting style before?
I will say again, what is the big issue you have on people needing to stick to one person only...?

Personaly, i believed up to the point of when you two were on my case, i dont feel there was a real connection between you two and you were both just working as townie innocents..Now, its obvious there is no connect there as you two are now working independantly, and i feel its because you have changed roles in the game...
Funny, I thought you believed I was evil before around when I called you out, now you are saying I am wrong?

Again, if i had come out and changed my vote to you, then i would not of been able to watch your pattern because you would of been aware of me watching you.
what?!?! and how does this make sense? I would love to know which pattern you are comparing me to.

Almost moved your vote? this is starting to confirm what i am seeing here..You almost moved your vote, then you had a role change, so, you did not.
I almost moved my vote. How can there be a roll change in the middle of day? Ah, I see, you are suggesting JM's position. That's interesting Niko, the more I think of that, just what is making you believe Judge was evil? What makes you so sure that she didn't have a power roll? Ah, is it because you KNOW who replaced JM because you can now chat with them?

See, you were again pretty quiet in the game, not really doing a great lot, just enough i feel to keep your face noticed, but sitting in the sidelines..
ok, so, here you say I need to be posting every 5 minutes.... at least I was around around change of nite. You conveniently needed to get bed or wherever just 15 minutes before. You mean to tell me 15 minutes makes that big of a difference?

Here, again, just a little mention of your thoughts towards me, not the strong evidence that i am evil and up to no good, but only a good suspect now? this has changed somewhat from hammering on my door, to be just a good suspect..
ok, if I'm not mentioning you, I am evil, if I am, I am evil. Niko... if you're going to try to build a case on me and copmpile all my posts to just 1 for yourself, at least be consistent inside the post. It was almost better when you were so inconsistent in post after post after post. The fact of the matter is, you were/are a suspect. I never moved my vote off of you.

To sum up, i think JM's role has been passed on to DD which would explain why her change in posting manners changed when JM went out of the game and why Blue is now moving away from DD...
again, I find it quite interesting how you seem to know JM's roll was an elf, not a power roll.

Of course, this could have a knock on effect on me as a townie and end up being lynched or hit, but, i feel i needed to bring out in the open what i was talking about last night and what people where questioning me over, and why i did not bring it out into the open.
who else questioned you besides Blue and me?

Read it, absorb it, take out of it what you like, but, this is what i have noticed. If nobody else can see this or see it some other way, then shout up...
my comments above in red

charlie_stubbs said:
IMO its irresponsible not to kick in doors. This post for example, has raised an alarm bell, so I think its time to kick in your door. You seem to be doing a good job of blending in. You have no suspects at this point??? What are you hiding???

I agree...if nobody was willing to start kicking in doors or shaking tree's, then we would never be able to put people under pressure to see if they slip up with a post, make an ill comment. All that would happen is that the evil's would just lynch away and the innocents would be dropping like flies every game night...not good...So..Lets see what reaction we get from you now "you" have started to raise peoples alarm bells..

:popcorn:
can you explain what this means? Why would you want a reaction from charlie now that he has started raising people's alarm bells...? Charlie is responding to Grins... where do you fit in here? Do you want to talk about tag teams?


WOW...you have voted for me...for what? cus i posted a picture..?? lol..its amazing how rash actions happen when someone who is under pressure can reaction to some simple questioning

what's even more amazing is how you talk about how it's amazing what happens when someone who is under pressure can have a reaction to simple questioning..... wasn't that you on Day 1???
 
If you were referring to my question, Blue, it was not about LG, it was about Andi. Ice gave her a hard time and you and JP questioned her as well. Also Andi was going after CL and Coler, so I wanted your inputs on why you thought Andi was hit. I have my own theories, I just wanted to hear others' first.

I think andi was hit because of the confusion in her posts regarding what she thought the game was about..


Blue, here's an exchange between you and Niko. Let's pretend that I'm a moron (probably not such a stretch for some)... can you please explain to me what you're trying to get at here? Maybe it's just a 'guy' thing, but I truly don't understand what you're asking, and what response you were hoping for.


What I was trying to get is why he thinks I am innocent now, even tho he is high on my list. IMO, no one should be considered innocent in this game unless you are evil and know who your partners are, then youd know who wasnt on your team. The response I was looking for is one that made sense and directly addressed what was asked. Not a repetition of what I had stated in my question, or talking about proving something. As I have already said in a previous post, I think that hes trying to get me to lower him on my radar so I will put my attentin somewhere else and not vote for him.

To respond to Jpappy
I agree mad. I have been reading through the exchange and am still trying to figure out what the heck blue is getting at. I makes me wonder if she is just trying to pull something out of thin air to use against niko...

Im not trying to pull anything out of the air. I am going off what he has stated, as well as his avoidance of directly answering my question. If he is innocent, I feel that he would have had no problem directly answering it, even if it was "it means nothing", or it means that "we are both innocent and Im trying to prove to you I am", anything to answer the question instead of avoiding it and changing the subj.
 
I think it would be irresponsible of me to bash doors at this point. It seems to bash down doors all willy nilly is a bit irresponsible of anyone really. Unless you have a pretty clear case of someone being evil you risk taking the focus off real scum and instead having others begin to target innocents. For proof of that just look at how LadyG was singled out and how quickly the town turned on her. Meanwhile the real scum were left to carry out their misdeeds and we lost one of our own. I'll "woman up" and ask questions and vote to protect the town but I am not going to fly off at the handle and play right into the hands of those that wish to do us harm.

IMO its irresponsible not to kick in doors. This post for example, has raised an alarm bell, so I think its time to kick in your door. You seem to be doing a good job of blending in. You have no suspects at this point??? What are you hiding???

Blueiz, here is Grins post, and then my response. Where is it that i "twisted" her words?? Note the question mark after the bolded part of my post.

If you read my vote last night you saw my list of reasons for voting for Clown. I still find him suspect. I also have mentioned that Niko's posting has been suspect. Why that equates to having no supsects is beyond me. But keep this in mind...I did not vote to lynch the innocent LadyG. As for clown whom I did vote for we don't yet know if he is innocent or not but I am suspecting not.

And now you, why the sudden false information about me not listing suspects? Are you trying to deflect from something? Hoping that perhaps another rash of mob mentality will lynch another innocent?

I find it odd that in the first part of the post you say CL is still suspect, then later you say he's not. Which one is it???
It's also suspicious that you want to point out that you didn't vote for LG whenever you get the chance. May I point out that since you probably knew she was innocent, I can see why you didn't want to vote for her. Well played.

Shaking trees is one thing, but what happened last night was the loss of 3 innocents...three. And I wasn't someone who voted for any of them to be lynched. Ask yourself this, who did.

Again pointing out you didn't vote for LG. Surely this means you're innocent right???

Im a bit more suspicious of Charlie now considering the above posts. Atnixon, my suspicion has never left and my vote will most likely end up on him. I cant help but think that he is trying to lower himself on my radar by saying he thinks Im innocent.


Niko, if you think Im innocent and I am voting for you because I strongly believe you are evil, what does that mean?

Charlie, are you and Niko working together? You two jumped on Grins for something very very small, even twisting what she said. Charlie, I expect that from Niko cause thats what he has proven he does, but not from you, can you explain why? Id like to think Its because you are knocking on doors trying to get the evil ones to slip up..and not that you are trying to start a train. Id hate to see what happened to LG happen again tonight.
I don't know if Niko and I are working together Blue, time will tell. I can tell you this, his eagerness to help me interrogate Grins is a little fishy. "Go find your own weasel Niko, I'm already kicking this one", is what I should have told him.
Again I ask you to show me where I twisted what she said. I guess you have the same plan as Grins then??? Sit back and wait for the scum to just go away. I find it interesting that you feel the need to take the pressure off Grinch. I mean Grins.


To answer the question of my questioning LG, yes, I asked her why she was so quiet because it is not like her, she answered. I didn't find anything suspicious about her answer because I find that it is highly unlikley she would make something up about her personal life as an explanation, I feel shes smart and crafty enough not to have to do that. That is why I did not pursue her anymore.

That, or like Grins, you knew that train was going to crash, so you were careful not to leave any prints at the crime scene. Not content with that, you must remind us you have left no prints at the crime scene. OK I get it. You must be innocent too. Everyone is innocent. Maybe you and Grins are right, the scumbags all left town. We must have bored them all to death.

Looking back on last night fall, it being night one and the game just starting, Id like to say if you arent going to play, please do not sign up. I understand RL sometimes leaving you unavailable and its out of your control, however its pointless to sign up if you arent even going to start to play.

My comments above, in red
 
If you read my vote last night you saw my list of reasons for voting for Clown. I still find him suspect. I also have mentioned that Niko's posting has been suspect. Why that equates to having no supsects is beyond me. But keep this in mind...I did not vote to lynch the innocent LadyG. As for clown whom I did vote for we don't yet know if he is innocent or not but I am suspecting not.

And now you, why the sudden false information about me not listing suspects? Are you trying to deflect from something? Hoping that perhaps another rash of mob mentality will lynch another innocent?

Well Chas you twisted this part just now^^^

Grins says we dont now if clown is INNOCENT or NOT she thinks not as in NOT innocent as in EVIL...
 
I can't help but notice you say how quickly "the town" turned on her, as though you aren't part of the town. Is this what is called a Fruedian slip??? Explain to me again who you voted for last night, and how you came to vote for this person if you didn't shake any trees???

Blueiz, here is Grins post, and then my response. Where is it that i "twisted" her words?? Note the question mark after the bolded part of my post.

The above quoted post in bold is why I said that Charlie..
 
The above quoted post in bold is why I said that Charlie..

I dont get that either...care to explain Chas why referring to the "town" as a group somehow was meant to exclude Grins???
 
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