Samus the goldfish will be in the 40 soon, I just don't want to stress him out. I love the little guy and would rather keep him in the 5 gal now than the uncycled 40.
Also, does the above method work that well?
Preferred way to cycle a new tank?
- Thread starter Squeakfish
- Start date
Samus the goldfish will be in the 40 soon, I just don't want to stress him out. I love the little guy and would rather keep him in the 5 gal now than the uncycled 40.
Also, does the above method work that well?
Well, live plants will certainly make the cycling process less likely to harm the fish as they do consume ammonia; but you still do the usual daily/sometimes more frequent testing to monitor levels, and then water change as necessary whenever you see ammonia/nitrite at .25 ppm.
Works perfectly as long as the plants are healthy and growing. If they're not then naturally it won't work.
I agree with you Squeakfish, The most important thing you mentioned is that you have time.... I believe too many folks loose their patience when it comes to cycling a tank..(or have livestock on hand and no place for them) notice all the replies concerning speeding up this process...why risk the health of your livestock or put "expendable" livestock in that environment?? when you can do a fish less cycle and spare the fish any unwarranted stress. I believe the more people hear and understand the benefits of a fish less cycle the more folks would recommend this over any other....
That being said, I also believe that there are methods posted here that will help speed this process along, 1, Seeding from an already cycled filter media is by far the best... 2, using some substrate from an established tank is another (both methods used in combination would help greatly) leaving plants in the pots that you purchased them from (most come in "rock wool" media) most likely are already teaming with N-bacteria.
Here is what I would consider methods that should be avoided...
1. Don't rely on off the shelf "quick fix" cycle solutions (don't waste your $$).
2. Obtain a liquid quality H20 test kit... API or such within your $$ range. Stay away from test strips.
3. If doing a fish less cycle don't test for anything other than NH4 (ammonia) Your target base NH4 level is 4-5 pmm... your other tests mean nothing at this point. only begin to test for N02(Nitrites) after your NH4 drops back from 4-5 ppms to .25ppms or so within a 12 hr period after adding your NH4. (this means that your N-bacteria are converting NH4 to N02). Don't freak... your N02 levels will begin to go off the chart!! remember that your still adding NH4 at 1/2 dose, your new NH4 target is now 2-3 pmm.
4. Don't perform any H20 changes during this process...Why? remember you have no livestock suffering within the system... You may have to add H20 for evaperation... let it stand for 24 hrs prior to adding it to the tank. don't add any declorinators to it, most will bind ammonia as well... no need.
5. Don't rely solely on plant mass... this directly contradicts what you are trying to achive... a well established bio filter capable of ingesting the NH4 from your livestock.... If you where to add plant mass prematurely this would directly compete with the n-bacteria for the available NH4. giving one a false sense that the N-bacteria are establishing/multiplying themselves. remember... your developing a bio filtration system not feeding plants.
All that said, cycling a tank takes time don't loose your Patience in this very important step. Most folks cant understand why they keep loosing livestock even after they have "cycled" their tanks. I contend that some of the remedies to speed this process actually hurts the Bio filtration system or at least weakens its capacity to handle a larger bio load from increased livestock once released into the system. Build your bio filtration large enough from the beginning before you add your livestock and you will be well on your way at being successful in this great hobby.
Troy
Agree, however the plant mass would have to be extreme, 1 stem per in. I've rarely ever seen that type of planting in the beginning stages of a new system for cycle.... Look at most folks tanks that they have planted. they are relying on maybe 1/2 dozen plants.... most the time less than that and they add one plant at a time as they come across them. I'm talking about establishing a bio filtration system that will not subject livestock to ammonia spikes for the sake of fulfilling ones compulsive need to see livestock in an unestablished tank...
I respectfully disagree with the your statement that planted tanks are different than other non planted tanks... your simply substituting one bio filtration system for another. I wouldn't want to give the false impression that a few plants in a newly established tank will not subject livestock to unwarranted NH4/N02 spikes during this cycle. Most LFS do that already...
In this case we are also talking about a cold water species which would also limit plant Growth, not to mention.. a species that will forage on aquatic plants as a staple to their diet...also putting a substantial strain on whatever bio filtration system squeak fish may establish in his new 40. As responsible hobbyist we should try and strive for helping folks increase their chances at being successful. I gage that success by no fish losses and or a tank lacking of algae (algae has the ability to uptake NH4 faster than other aquatic plant mass) due to under powered bio filtration system whether that be planted or a combination of both, due to the inabilities of the whatever system put in place. I truly believe that most folks new to the hobby have spent their hard earned $$ on all the equipment (Filters included) only to skimp on the most critical aspect of going with a planted bio filtration setup tank....the plants themselfs.....For this reason I would always suggest a fish less cycle over one that in most cases will be inadequate for their needs.
I respectfully disagree with the your statement that planted tanks are different than other non planted tanks... your simply substituting one bio filtration system for another. I wouldn't want to give the false impression that a few plants in a newly established tank will not subject livestock to unwarranted NH4/N02 spikes during this cycle. Most LFS do that already...
In this case we are also talking about a cold water species which would also limit plant Growth, not to mention.. a species that will forage on aquatic plants as a staple to their diet...also putting a substantial strain on whatever bio filtration system squeak fish may establish in his new 40. As responsible hobbyist we should try and strive for helping folks increase their chances at being successful. I gage that success by no fish losses and or a tank lacking of algae (algae has the ability to uptake NH4 faster than other aquatic plant mass) due to under powered bio filtration system whether that be planted or a combination of both, due to the inabilities of the whatever system put in place. I truly believe that most folks new to the hobby have spent their hard earned $$ on all the equipment (Filters included) only to skimp on the most critical aspect of going with a planted bio filtration setup tank....the plants themselfs.....For this reason I would always suggest a fish less cycle over one that in most cases will be inadequate for their needs.
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My experience, however, has been that even moderately planted tanks will, with slow stocking, silently cycle. I agree with you that if we're talking only half a dozen plants, then we're not really talking planted at all, but rather "tank with one or two plants in it", but I've generally seen silent cycles at planting densities well below one stem per square inch. If the opening post had been in the general section rather than in the planted tanks section, which indicates to me a seriously planted tank, then I'd have advised differently.
I'm not sure coldwater makes much difference at this time of year
I'm not sure coldwater makes much difference at this time of year
irishspy
There is a stargate in my aquarium.
I've used the "silent cycle" method (lots of fast-growing plants) and it worked quite well. I never had a problem with ammonia nor nitrites. :idea:
ISpy,
I am not debating whether or not a tank can in fact cycle with a livestock load or not.... it can, with risks to the livestock. However; that was not the original question... the question was if you could do a fish less cycle with the main concern being the welfare of the livestock... simple answer yes. I happen to prefer this method over the more traditional method... one will not lose any livestock nor put any in a environment that would cause stress or even death to the species. The other method your refering to actually recommends introducing "hardy" species in order to begin the N cycle Actually putting livestock in as "sacrificial lambs" if you will. If they succumb so be it.... Do you really believe that is the most responsible method available to us? Or simply is that the cost of cycling a new tank?? I believe we should have moved past this type of method as newer more responsible methods present themselves. I believe that one could actually obtain the bio filtration needed to support an enclosed system using a combination of plant mass/mechanical without introducing or subjecting any species to a potentially deadly environment. Thats the responsible thing to do. why folks still promote the other method is one I cannot fully understand the rational...
Squeakfish, its refreshing to see there are hobbyists out there that are responsible enough actually to investigate alternative cycling methods with the goal of livestock welfare. I would wish you luck but you won't need any, you get it.
Troy
I am not debating whether or not a tank can in fact cycle with a livestock load or not.... it can, with risks to the livestock. However; that was not the original question... the question was if you could do a fish less cycle with the main concern being the welfare of the livestock... simple answer yes. I happen to prefer this method over the more traditional method... one will not lose any livestock nor put any in a environment that would cause stress or even death to the species. The other method your refering to actually recommends introducing "hardy" species in order to begin the N cycle Actually putting livestock in as "sacrificial lambs" if you will. If they succumb so be it.... Do you really believe that is the most responsible method available to us? Or simply is that the cost of cycling a new tank?? I believe we should have moved past this type of method as newer more responsible methods present themselves. I believe that one could actually obtain the bio filtration needed to support an enclosed system using a combination of plant mass/mechanical without introducing or subjecting any species to a potentially deadly environment. Thats the responsible thing to do. why folks still promote the other method is one I cannot fully understand the rational...
Squeakfish, its refreshing to see there are hobbyists out there that are responsible enough actually to investigate alternative cycling methods with the goal of livestock welfare. I would wish you luck but you won't need any, you get it.
Troy
Troy - the silent cycle method does not use hardy fish as potential sacrifices. It does not expose them to nitrite or ammonia. The point of the silent cycle is that the plants use the ammonia and nitrite whilst what bacterial flora might be required develops on unmeasurably low excess quantities of these metabolites - the sorts of unmeasurable levels present in all tanks once cycled. Contrary to what you think we're saying, we are NOT advocating "subjecting any species to a potentially deadly environment". You are confusing a silent cycle with a traditional fish-only fishy cycle. They are not the same thing. I agree that the traditional fishy cycle is a Bad Thing when there are alternatives available. One of those alternatives is the Silent Cycle in a heavily planted tank which you appear to confuse with the traditional fishy cycle.
