Water Chemistry

brentling

brentling

AC Members
Aug 1, 2008
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Lexington, Kentucky
Well, I am having lots of fun with this site. I am a very experienced aquarist with about ten years time working in a very nice, largish pet store. I have been out of the aquarium thing for some time now, but just set up my 29 gal. again last weekend. It has been running empty until tonight when I finally was able to introduce some fish and plants. While purchasing the fish, my kind friend the LFS owner made me a nice deal on a Marine Enterprises Master Test Kit which I promptly opened and tested a bunch of parameters of my water.

Back in the day... *groans in the background* we normally sent freshwater folks out the door with a pH test kit and 6 or 8 hardy fish to begin the nitrogen cycle with instructions to come back in 2 weeks for 2-4 more hardy fish. We let nature take its course and left the water testing for the saltwater folks. I am plenty clear on the Nitrogen cycle having worked with saltwater aquariums at length and keeping many of my own tanks (and the store's). What I would like to do is just bounce my test results off of this wonderful bunch of fish geeks and see what y'all think. I am pretty confident in my fishkeeping abilities and am very exited to have my tank going again, but I am anxious to learn all I can on this site because the knowledge has expanded a lot in my absence and I love to learn as much as possible about all things aquarium!

This tank is attempting to be an Amazon River Basin biotope that will be centered around Pterophyllum scalare, Microgeophagus ramirezi and as many cool new Apistogrammas and funky catfish as I can find! I also love Tetras and am anxious to host a big flock of Rummynose and other little guys of that sort.

My water tonight:

Temp: 81deg. F
pH: 7.2
Ammonia:1 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Nitrate: 50 ppm
GH: 220 ppm
KH: 80 ppm

Since the tank has been sitting empty (there was a bit of oldish algae on the driftwood) I am surprised to see the Nitrogen cycle this far advanced. I did not expect to see Nitrites or Nitrates at all. The pH is kind of high for this type of setup, but my LFS dealer (whom I trust completely-used to work with him) explained that they are tending towards neutral pH as most of the fish are tank raised. Also, while I understand GH & KH on an esoteric level, I have little hands-on experience with dealing with it. In Kentucky, our water tends to be hard and alkaline, so we always just dealt with it until the tank was well established at which time it would acidify and become softer.

With all of that said (sorry for the mini novel here), should I let nature take its course here and let the cycle go ahead and complete? Or should I get some 'bacteria in a bottle' or dose with Amquel or do bunches of water changes? My advice in the past would be to let it ride, do a water change in a week or so, and keep testing. Also, would someone mind addressing the GH/KH thing? I am of the peat moss/blackwater extract mentality, but am told by responsible individuals that this is a bad plan. Thanks for reading my novel and thanks for any help! :)
 
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pH isn't important. Fish aren't much affected by pH within very large limits. It's GH which is an issue. Yours is a little high for Apistos. I'd want to use peat filtration to try to bring it down a bit.
 
So you are now in the midst of a fishy cycle...?

Please do water changes as large and as frequent as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrites under .25 ppm.

I wouldn't worry about the pH unless you are trying to breed the apistos.

What is your tap ammonia and pH readings? The tap pH sample sjould sit out overnight in a shallow dish, then test.
 
As you already have fish in your tank, 1.0 ammonia is too high. Your fish will be suffering. I would advise you to do immediate 50% water change and get some of the ammonia neutralizing water conditioner. I don't know the brand you have there.

Also some bacteria in a bottle is a pretty good idea, IMO, though there are many on this board who have not had success with it, I have successfully cycled tanks with it. I believe the American preferred brand is Bio-Spira.
 
rbishop said:
So you are now in the midst of a fishy cycle...?

Please do water changes as large and as frequent as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrites under .25 ppm.

I wouldn't worry about the pH unless you are trying to breed the apistos.

What is your tap ammonia and pH readings? The tap pH sample sjould sit out overnight in a shallow dish, then test.
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Below .25 it is then. I'll test the tap water pH and ammonia. Thanks for the feedback. In my old way of doing things, we would look for and want the ammonia to go sky high, followed by nitrites going sky high, then both dropping off to near nothing. The theory being that we were "feeding" the bacteria and creating a strong base.
 
brentling said:
Below .25 it is then. I'll test the tap water pH and ammonia. Thanks for the feedback. In my old way of doing things, we would look for and want the ammonia to go sky high, followed by nitrites going sky high, then both dropping off to near nothing. The theory being that we were "feeding" the bacteria and creating a strong base.
Click to expand...

That old theory was based on the misapprehension that rabbits breed faster in the presence of thousands of carrots more than they can eat than they do in the presence of hundreds of carrots more than they can eat. In reality, of course, they breed as fast as they can as long as there are as many as, or more carrots than, they can eat. The ammonia you can measure is excess - reducing the excess has no effect on bacterial reproduction. But it was "common sense" that they reproduced faster the more ammonia there was. It was also wrong, as "common sense" so often is in science.
 
Since you work at a LFS, do you have access to R/O? If so, you could dilute it with tap 1:1 and knock that GH down. It will help with apistos and especially Rummynose tetras since they are wild caught and sometimes have horrendous loss-rates.
 
Riiz said:
Since you work at a LFS, do you have access to R/O? If so, you could dilute it with tap 1:1 and knock that GH down. It will help with apistos and especially Rummynose tetras since they are wild caught and sometimes have horrendous loss-rates.
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I used to work at a LFS, but I do have an excellent relationship/friendship with the owner of THE cool LFS in town. So I will pester him for some R/O water. I think I will need to invest in an R/O unit soon, especially before I set up my 125. I have watched many dozens of Rummynose and Cardinals die painful deaths and have no wish to repeat the process. I have seen R/O setups selling for anywhere between $130 and $2500. I think my needs are simple and I can get away with a less expensive one, but obviously my knowledge is dated. Any suggestions on what to look for?
 
KarlTh said:
That old theory was based on the misapprehension that rabbits breed faster in the presence of thousands of carrots more than they can eat than they do in the presence of hundreds of carrots more than they can eat. In reality, of course, they breed as fast as they can as long as there are as many as, or more carrots than, they can eat. The ammonia you can measure is excess - reducing the excess has no effect on bacterial reproduction. But it was "common sense" that they reproduced faster the more ammonia there was. It was also wrong, as "common sense" so often is in science.
Click to expand...

Thank you. The carrot/rabbit analogy is spot on.
 
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