Naturally lowering PH?

This is a great post.... osmotic sensitivity is usually ignored despite the fact that almost all water bound organisms are susceptible to it. TDS (total dissolved solids, for those not familar with) is therefore a critical determinant and measuring GH/KH is one of the easiest ways to assess this parameter. It has been my experience that GH is a more valuable determinant for osmotic considerations than KH (carbonate hardness) due to the abundance of ions that fall within this category (i.e. Mg, Na, etc.).

However, 'raw' pH is also an important determinant for water species and it is a parameter that should not be overlooked. Larger swings in pH, at a stable TDS, can have a profound effect on biological processes. Most bound cellular organelles require a pH gradient in order to function, including the mitochondria responsible for ATP synthesis. Ambient water parameters have a significant effect on intracellular and extracellular chemistry and are inherently subject to stress.

Fortunately, bioenergetics are flexible enough to allow gradual changes in pH to be tolerated. Indeed, most specimens of 'tropical' fish can adapt well to an atypical pH range so long as the change occurs gradually. Nevertheless, some specimens (e.g. many Arican cichlid specimens that are not tank raised) do not do well without the pH range that they are biologically engineered for.

Acute deaths are more likely to result from osmotic shock (i.e. TDS change), but I have (sadly) seen 'modest' pH swings at a relatively constant TDS have a devastating impact on certain species.

nice post.:thumbsup:

I see you mentioned "not tank raised"

agreed, I have seen wild stock suffer (angels and Discus) fish that have been accustomed to low TDS in acidic water.

I have seen, after generations, tanks raised stock of the same species with fewer issues.
 
I will be honest here, but with cory's you should have a sand substrate. The little barbs on the front of their face are very sensitive and should they loose them they will die inevitably. Hard rocks such as gravel (even aquarium) are too rough for them. Most people with cory's use a sand substrate b/c the chance for them to damage their barbs is much lower. You can get play sand from lowers or pool filter sand which would be much better overall for your cory's than gravel. Mine love to sift through the sand for tiny tidbits.

Also, while cory's will eat off algae wafers its not really their primay diet source. They are carnivores and you should concentrate on feeding something other than algae wafers and shrimp pellets. I use sinking food for my cory's (I dont remember the kind off hand) and they get the scraps from whatever drops down from my danios and rasboras (micropellets and bloodworms). It is possible that they are just not getting enough to eat from your description (or not enough of the right kinda food to eat).

Good luck.
 
Well, the algae wafers I feed have pretty good ingredients, as do the shrimp pellets.
I feed daily, along with flakes for the tetras. I put flakes into the current from the filter, and whatever the tetras miss is for the corys. I also put flakes on top of the water for the tetras, but thats not the topic of discussion.
 
I would similarly be concerned about the gravel, as it can wear down the barbels, which are what the corys use to search for food. With those worn off, they often slowly starve to death. Maybe talk her into switching to black sand?
 
I would similarly be concerned about the gravel, as it can wear down the barbels, which are what the corys use to search for food. With those worn off, they often slowly starve to death. Maybe talk her into switching to black sand?

I think I might look for evidence that the barbells are being warn off before changing the substrate, but I do agree that sand would be better for cories.

One thing does come to mind though - I've only heard it couple times, but I have heard that some people have bad luck with cory barbells on that black moon tahitian sand. Is it the sand or did these people have tanks filled with nitrates? Who knows, but it's something to consider before swapping out substrate.
 
DrVader - I agree that cell bound organelles require pH gradients; what I'm not at all convinced of, either theoretically or experientially, is that the pH of the water the fish swim in has a direct and immediate effect on the pH inside their cells. Big sudden changes - say more than two or three points - may well be more than a fish can cope with in terms of maintaining the right alkaline blood pH, but how do we define "sudden"? The way some people talk, you'd not think fish would survive in many ponds where pH fluctuates as CO2 is used up by the flora. And when I hear of people getting worried about a pH that's below 8, I feel pretty sure there's a great deal of mythology around the subject. I've heard people claim pH shouldn't change by more than a tenth of a point a day - where does that come from? And who's got a test kit that's that precise, even allowing for the fact that the colours the test solution goes all look more like each other than any of the ones on the card (IME; naturally YMMV)?

The blood pH is very important; so much so that any fish species wanting to survive has to be very good at maintaining it whatever the outside pH is. My reading has found that fish can adapt to a full point pH change within around an hour (depending of course on the size of the change). It's difficult to find many papers on the topic because researchers are mostly interested in what happens if you stick a guppy in pH 3.5 (it dies, not from the pH per se, but from inhibited uptake of Na+; it just can't stick H+ into the water against the concentration gradient in order to take Na+ in).

Sometimes I think hobby kits should only measure pH to the nearest half a point; frankly, unless you're calculating ammonia toxicity (and a better approach is Water Change Until You Can't Measure It Any More anyway), then knowing the pH better than "around 6.5" or "around 8" is perfectly adequate. Given that our domestic aquaria tend to range between 6.5 and 8.5 and only go outside those ranges in the most unusual of circumstances, I'd say that for nearly all the fish we keep we can pretty much stop worrying about pH, especially since if you give amazonian fish the low TDS they want, you'll get the low pH anyway, and similarly for Rift Lake fish - bang up the hardness by any conventional means and the pH will rise anyway - that the precise ranges of pH the fish can cope with and the degree of adaptability to pH they possess is pretty much academic. There are so many other factors we can't know about as well - if the pH is the same, and the TDS the same, but the [Na+] decreases by a factor of 10, how long does the fish take to adapt to that? Does it die before it can adapt? Who knows?

Meanwhile AP make a fortune out of their "Proper pH" products by propagating the pH myth ;)
 
I wouldn't be too worried about the pH or the hardness. Fish in general are pretty adaptable to water parameters as long as its stable. My cories are in similar water conditions to yours.

Do you have something in your tank that could be softening the water? When you add tap water to soft water (i.e. unbuffered water) then a sudden crash is eminent. Also, do you let your water to sit overnight before using it for the water change?

I would test your aquarium water vs. the water you use for water changes to see if there's any huge discrepancies.

Be careful with buying sand for your cories... some sand actually have very sharp silica flakes that can cut up the barbels.
 
Erm - adding harder tap water to soft water will increase the KH and likely stabilise pH. It'll go up; it won't crash.

Jaylin - BA(Hons) Education with Science, specialised in biology with focus of freshwater aquatic systems.
 
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