Blue Gourami skin lacerations?

[caroleolk]

Hi

We have a 70 g tank with 1 Red hook Dollar, 2 silver dollars, 6 goldfish, 2 angels, 1 rainbow shark 4 blue Gouramis and 3 red Gouramis.

All these fish have been together for 6 mos or so and are peaceful and i have tested the water and all levels are in normal ranges. temp is 22 degrees C.

so here is the problem - today i woke up and one of my blue gouramis has what looks like a scratch? otherwise i am not certain what it could be, unless it is a skin illness. All other fish in tank look healthy.

Note in the pictures the whitish area on his back.

thanks for any help

Carole

 

[LeahK]

Hi, and welcome to AC!

I'm not sure what exactly ails that gourami--the patchy white spots may indicate a bacterial infection. Many illnesses are caused by water quality issues, and clean water is often the best medication. You said that your water levels are in the "normal range," but what exactly are the numbers? What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change at a time?

Answers to these questions may help people here diagnose the illness.

Also, you may want to consider that, as a general rule, we are discouraged from housing goldfish with tropical fish. Goldfish, being a coldwater species, have different temperature requirements. At 22, your water is certainly at the low end of the comfort zone for your gouramis and other tropical fish.

 

[caroleolk]

hmm...I had the water tested at petsmart...so I dont have the readings but she said they were all 'normal'. We change water 25% every week and a little more with a full clean of all plants/decor 1x/month or so. Last water change was saturday.

i know the rule on goldies...but they have caused little problem with the tank, and we monitor amonia levels with filter/amonia remover. They were our first fish, and we would be sad to part with them!

Do you feel isolating him at this point is recommended?

 

[LeahK]

Well, I'm no expert, but I think your gourami's problems stem from overstocking. Most people here will probably agree that your tank is stocked beyond capacity with the goldfish alone. The moderator Kashta for the goldfish forum here says, as a general rule: "15 gallons per fish for fancies (fantails, orandas, ryukins, etc.); and 20 gallons per fish for pond types (commons, comets, shubunkins, wakins)." Depending on which kind you have, you'd need 90 to 120 gallons to house them long-term. Add that to all the tropicals you've got in there, and I'd guess that you have water quality issues that are negatively impacting fish health.

hmm...I had the water tested at petsmart...so I dont have the readings but she said they were all 'normal'.

I recommend buying your own test kit. Who knows what the pet store people are defining as "normal"? Get the liquid tests (not the paper strips) for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, at least. Normal will be ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate 20 or below. Any ammonia or nitrite above 0.25 will harm your fish. When you have the tests at home, you are able to check the water and do a water change as soon as the levels get out of whack.

Was the tank cycled before you put the fish in? Or did you cycle the tank with fish? If so, in what order did you add the fish?

We change water 25% every week...

Goldfish are amazingly messy fish, on top of the fact that your tank is quite heavily stocked. A weekly water change of 25% is probably NOT enough to keep the nitrates below 20. Plus, because you have such a high bioload, you may have ammonia and nitrite issues, either of which could have led to the lesions you see on the gourami.

...and a little more with a full clean of all plants/decor 1x/month or so.

Whenever you clean deco and plants, you lose some of the good bacteria that keep your tank cycled. The majority of the bacteria live in your filter. If you ever clean your filter components by rinsing them in tap water, then you kill all the bacteria and your tank has to re-cycle. So, I'm wondering if by "full clean" you mean cleaning the filter too.... It's ok to rinse the filter components in old tank water, but never in tap water.

Last water change was saturday.

i know the rule on goldies...but they have caused little problem with the tank, and we monitor amonia levels with filter/amonia remover.

Unfortunately, the goldies probably ARE causing problems, in the form of nitrite and ammonia, but you just don't see it. If there's an ammonia problem, then the only way to truly monitor ammonia levels is by testing the water yourself, every day. Some ammonia removers can actually set your cycle back. By removers, do you mean neutralizers like Amquel and Ammolock, or removers like zeolite?

They were our first fish, and we would be sad to part with them!

Believe me, I understand. My first tank was a 10g my friend gave me when she moved, containing two gourami and two goldfish. Based on advice I got here on AC, I ended up taking the goldfish back to the pet store, which was really sad. But it was probably best for the fish. Good thing for you, though, is you've already got a nice big tank, so you could keep the goldies and buy a new tank for your tropicals. If you just separate them out, you would drastically reduce the bioload in your 70 gallon.

Do you feel isolating him at this point is recommended?

I'm hoping someone else comes along to help diagnose this fish. Poor water quality can indeed make fish susceptible to bacterial infections, which I'm guessing is what's caused those white patches. He may have been bitten by the rainbow shark (they can be aggressive), and then the bite got infected. Since most antibiotic/antibacterial fish meds will also kill your good bacteria in the filter, it can be a good idea to treat the sick fish in a quarantine tank.

But, with some bacterial issues, simply improving the water quality will give the fish a chance to heal on its own.

Are there any other symptoms? Is the fish lethargic? Swimming funny? Eating?

Sorry to kinda lay all this on you! It sounds like you're doing a good job of taking care of your tank--I think you're just fighting an uphill battle with the water quality, because you have too many fish in there. I think, in the long run, the fish will be healthier and happier if you get a second tank and separate the goldies.

But, for the short-term, I'm guessing a bacterial infection for the gourami. I would do daily water changes of at least 25% for the next few days, to keep the water as clean as possible. Then, if the condition still worsens, I'd consider isolating and treating with a bacterial medication.

 

[LeahK]

I should add, based on those white patches, I believe that the worst-case scenario is that your fish has a bacterial infection called columnaris: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/columnaris.htm

You can do an internet search to get lots more info on it.

If this is the case, you might as well treat the whole tank, because it is very contagious.

 

[caroleolk]

wow- im overwelmed - of course the petstore version- 70 inches for 70 gallons.....................i consider myself way below that. I feel like I have been a bad fish owner. I thought this was a BIG tank. sadly mistaken.

funny how they flock together in one corner of the tank and 3/4 of it is empty most of the time!

so - I will quarantine the sick gourami. He seems perfectly fine for the most part, eating, swimming, carousing, etc. even pecked at some algae thins tonite.

 

[LeahK]

wow- im overwelmed - of course the petstore version- 70 inches for 70 gallons.....................i consider myself way below that. I feel like I have been a bad fish owner. I thought this was a BIG tank. sadly mistaken.

Don't feel too bad! The majority of people here on AC started out similarly--acting on bad advice they received at a pet store. There's just a lot of misinformation floating around out there in retail stores, and that "one inch per gallon" rule is one example.

But this website is so great--people here have lots of experience, and nothing to sell. After making one too many mistakes at the pet store, I learned to do my own research online and post questions here on AC before buying ANYTHING.

Good luck with your gourami. Keep us posted.