Mafia 54:Vampires Return (The Play)

Although... that would assume that we got JM the day he was turned- and we all suspected he was a vampire before then...

Still doesn't matter- Zaffy could have been the day five pick. Or- horror scenario because it would imply the vampires still have a lead vamp change... Zaffy could have been lead all along (don't think so because of end of day one snaffu). JM could have been end of day two pick. And Ogre could have been the new vampire on day 5.
 
rich311k said:
Why could zaffy not been the vamp from the start? We have no idea if we got the original vamp or not.

I am not completely convinced on Zaffy either. I just don't have a better candidate.
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He could have been vamp from the start- but remember the end of day one.

Dangerdoll, Kash, and Zaffy were looking likely to have a threesome. Zaffy backed out and pushed Dangerdoll into the fore.

That little stunt almost got Zaffy lynched. I think were Zaffy the lead vampire at that point the other vampires would have more likely taken the heat from Zaffy instead.

However- in defence of the Zaffy as lead vampire from day one theory... JPappy and Ogre both tried really hard to get Noodle as the main target that day and frame her.

This worked in completely making everyone forget about Zaffy. Obviously it is impossible that both Pap and Ogre were vamps at that time IF Zaffy were lead vampire... only 3 vamps and we know JL was one. BUT- one or the other could have been a vampire at that point.


I just think it unlikely Zaffy was lead vampire from the start- possible but unlikely. If he is a vampire I think it more likely he was picked up day two or later.
 
I need to understand the lesser vampire thing.

Ogre and JM were both "vampires" which would imply they weren't turns? Or weren't recent turns?

If so, that pretty much guarantees they were the 2 vampires remaining after JL was lynched.

If so, Zaffy has to be a more recent turn than that, and that seems a bad move by the vamps.
 
There is ONE lead vampire at all times- all other vampires are lesser vampires. The lead vampire can pass on the lead vampire to any of the other vampires ONE time. After that event the lead vampire stays lead vampire until the end of the game.

If we kill the lead vampire the game ends.

Ogre and JM were both lesser vampires when we killed them- that does not mean that neither of them ever held the lead vampire role- one might have at one point (in fact my guess is Ogre was lead vampire at the start of the game).
 
Wycco said:
There is ONE lead vampire at all times- all other vampires are lesser vampires. The lead vampire can pass on the lead vampire to any of the other vampires ONE time. After that event the lead vampire stays lead vampire until the end of the game.

If we kill the lead vampire the game ends.

Ogre and JM were both lesser vampires when we killed them- that does not mean that neither of them ever held the lead vampire role- one might have at one point (in fact my guess is Ogre was lead vampire at the start of the game).
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So why does Ice use the terms "vampire" for ogre and JM, but "Lesser-vampire" for JL/Jpap etc?

If it's just an inconsistent convention then I call bad form on the GM's part, that is misleading.
 
OK both sides have a certain point.

Lami is proceeding on the basis that lesser vampire versus 'vampire' means something. I can see why he might assume that - it only occurred to me just now as I went through the nightfalls.

Wycco has shown that if lesser vampire = vampire (i.e. 'lesser' is of no significance) Zaffy could easily be a vampire notwithstanding the other proven vamps.

I think lesser is not of significance but I am going to check the rules again
 
I don't know that I agree Lan- in the rules on page one he uses the terms lesser-vampire and vampire interchangably as well. Might be worth in future games the rules specify that the term "vampire" and "lesser vampire" refer to any vampire who is not the lead- but I don't think it is a problem- or has affected votes any.
 
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IceH2O said:
You are a Vampire. You are a force of darkness that delights in the stalk and the kill. Your fellow vampires are XXX, etc. You may communicate outside of the thread with these individuals. Each night, you will decide on a villager to stalk and kill/ try to turn.The game starts off with just 2 Vampires the Lead and 1 person of his choosing then the LV will choose a person to turn for the 1st 2 nights of which nothing can stop this choice except a lynching.

You are the Lead Vampire. You are the leader of this group of vampires. Your fellow vampires are XXX, etc. You may communicate outside of the thread with these individuals. Each day start, you will decide on a villager to stalk and kill.The 1st 2 nights are automatic turns nothing can stop this,except a lynching, from that point on it becomes a 50/50 chance at death or a turn(who now works for you and may not communicate this fact to anyone else). If you are killed the game ends and all the vampires you turned are returned to innocence. You will start out with YOU and 1 person of your choice at game start. IF you choose the HUNTER,SEER or PRIEST in the 1st 2 days they keep their roles but work for the Vampires.

The Lead Vampire will show as innocent the 1st 2 days/nights. He also has the ability to switch 1 time positions with someone on his team.

The LV needs to send in his choice for a turn at day start, if the Villagers lynch this person the LV loses a chance at a free Lesser vampire.

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Lami may well be on to something...note that the PM's went out as 'you are a vampire' to the person chosen by the LV. Then the reference to 'lesser vampire' is made for the in the last bit quoted above...hmmm...it seems reasonable to ask Ice to tell us whether the role description of 'vampire' is of any significance to that of a 'lesser vampire'.

If this is the case (i.e. lesser vamp is not the same as vamp) then huge kudos to Lami.
 
If the terms do mean something different it would be usefull to know as that COULD potentially change things.
 
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