Help! My discus & Angels are not acting right?

Their extra slime coat is probably due to the salt you added. Salt works by irritating their slime coat and causing them to produce more. Not a real big deal. Honestly, I'd leave it alone and let it ride for a few days aside from water changes. When you start worrying, stressing, adding meds, etc that's when things seem to go more wrong. They seem to be slowly improving & I'd just ride it out a fews days now. (My opinion).
 
Do you only have one heater in that tank?
I'm hoping an angel person comes along, looks to me like you've got fin deterioration on the angels as well, which would lead me to believe your water quality has been deteriorating.
 
Nice pics, more the merrier.

1. Flourish by seachem?
Did you add specific amt on routine schedule? or do you add randomly?
Although instruction is given, different amt with different time interval shouldve
been given to your specific tank.
For example, someone with 110 with couple of plants whould not be dosing
according to instruction as if one would dose for same tank chokeful of plants.

2. Since you have not specified how long you had these fish, I am going to assumed
they have been exposed to high pH over an year.

The following are what I experienced from many trial and errors over few decades in the hobby.

when fish are exposed to extreme waters, somee will adapt better than others.
Even the well adjusted/adapted fish are under extreme conditions are in a situation where more of their energy in order to maintain their bodily fuction where as such energy can be devoted to maintainning their health such as maintaining their vivid coolrs, healthier stocks/batches of offspring, less occurence of infections, etc, etc.

Since their energy is waste in combating/rectifying the disturbances caused to their normal bodily functions, it seems that most fish exposed to extreme water can react to sudden changes with drastic results when compare to fish which are kept in ideal conditions.
See if you can ovbtain Fish Pathology Textbook (grad level) and it should be explained thoroughly in relation to what extreme water can cause in repiratory, excretory and renal function,etc, etc. I am talking about chronic effect rather than acute since acute reation would be death usually.
That's that. I really dont want to argue wether fish can adapt or not. I am more concerned wether one is willing to understand the physiology and anatomy of fish in further details.
the fact that not all discus/angels are sharing same symptoms explains that every fish , even w/in same species, will tolerate/react differently

I do see slime/haziness on both discus and angel (hopefully it is just due to flash) which can be caused by both changes in water condition/prolonged exposure to extreme water/ infections.

I also see very raggety fins and tail (perhaps due to coutship??). I am not sure but clamped fins also on angel?? Also edges of fins or hazy fins?? Does any one hold the pelvic fin to the body more so than before?

BTW, would not raise the temp if it has been that temp for while.
When extra slimes are produced due to irritants, that extra slime is more prone to developing bacterial/fungal growth thus raising is not a good idea, IMO.

As far as salt, I dont know if adding salt was routine thing for you but would not just add any random amt like that. And I strongly feel small amt in 110G will cause such extra slime build up.

Salt can be very good therapeutic agent when used properly as I used , on many many occassions on many many discus shipments, just salt to rectify similar reaction of fish when newly arrived and well acclimated to new ideally conditioned water mimicking their water in the bag with great results.
Of course, such observations and practice took me while to develop which led to great reduction in mortality rate.

Do you have Q/T?
 
Last edited:
newdreamz - How are the discus and angels doing?

Cerianthis - pH 7.5 is not a high ph for keeping tank raised discus.
 
pinkertd said:
newdreamz - How are the discus and angels doing?

Cerianthis - pH 7.5 is not a high ph for keeping tank raised discus.
Click to expand...

Yes it can be. Not all discus are spawned and raised at high pH/hard water.
I bet those breeders who claims to raise/pawn in high pH/hard water are not telling the whole thing. More losses you have, more sales, IMO.
It certainly also depends on each individual keeper too.

Depending on locality, most Discus can be from farms in SE Asia (LOT Cheaper than local bred, for example Half Dollar size pidgeon/turq went for $10 -$15 retail locally). These Discus are not spawned and raised in extreme water since their local water is pretty close to ideal conditions.

Have you ever tried to keep Discus at 7.5? How many and for how long?

Someone keeping few discus/spawning at pH of 7.6 succefully does not necessarilly mean all Discus can sustain their longevity/health in such extreme water. This is due to fact that factors which can contribute to success and failures are too dependent on each individual keeper.

Have you made any comaparison b/n many discus kept at different types of water?

I have done many experiments to understand their ability to adapt water that is not so ideal condition for them.

Kept and spawned many discus in many different water, including wild green/brown/heckel discus.

What I learn form all these trials I ran is that although some Discus can be sustained in such extreme, but their longevity are comprimised drastically.
I also realized that amt of offspring produced at extreme conditions were not as many with high rate of deformity. Well, at least from few (meaning over thousands of discus) trials I ran to my best recollection.

I knew breeders of other regions where their water were not so ideal. They have ran similar trials (in order to reduce the cost/time of preparing ideal condition) but to derived with same conclusion as I have.

"Healthier Fish in Ideal Condition"

I also understand the difficulties in altering water chemistry for most hobbyist but in this case simple 30 G plastic container, heater and small powerhead with bag of peat from garden center should do. Have this reserve running 24/7/365. (I would have reserve running for any fish tank personally). Full time Reserve can save someone's nightmare!

Especially, water which does not contain chloramine, I would get rid of any dechlorinators and have the cost of such additives diverted to running reserve. For one, I have not used any dechlorinator for few decades ever since I learned how to do it and using age water derived better results or should I say less mishaps than using tap+dechlorinator.


As many literatures have stated, most diseases are stress related. Keeping Discus in such high pH does pose such stress, IMO.

Just trying to share my thoughts for suffering fish.

BTW, OP! DOnt change water chemistry yet!
Sudden changes (even from bad to good) at this point can cause further stress on fish.
 
I believe Newdreamz mentioned that their Discus were from Discus Hans. I'm lucky to live a few miles from his fish room, and to call what he has a fish room is a serious understatement, but we both start with water from the same municipal system. I'm not sure what his ph is but I do know that he has a humongous central system with several new water holding tanks - maybe a 1000 gallons. I'm gonna check with him later today.

Whatever he's doing it certainly works since he has hundreds and hundreds of very beautiful and valuable fish.

Cerianthus I'd like to hear more about what you're doing. I'm adding a new shop and a big part of the build is a new fish room. I thought that the stability of the chloramine, the reason the treatment plants like it, made it so stable that it didn't or was very very slow to evaporate. With my recent carbonate/ph issues I'm spendin' a lot of dough on water treatment that I'd sooner not. I've got about 50 tanks w/ 2,000 gallons of water and most of them are stand alone systems. My hope with the new room is that I can incorporate an automatic constant low velocity water replacement system. Also was curious about using the garden center peat. I've been relying on driftwood as an sort of acid buffer but I would never have trusted a commercially prepared agri-product that wasn't specifically made for aquaria. If it works that's great 'cuz I'm always lookin' for a way to save.

I don't breed discus...yet, but if a ph of 7.5 is O.K. why do all of the discus buffers seem to be geared to something in the 5.5-6.8 range?
 
I had a problem several times after adding Flourish in my Angel/Ram tank, very similar behavier, loss of movement and color.
Same also happens when my Angels spawn.
Why did you add the salt?
If the water change is helping go with it for now.
Is Star around for some help?
 
FoolishFish!
I dont want to deviate from main subject thus I have posted visitors messge.

PM if need alternative options!
 
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