German Blue Ram Females

[Turbosaurus]

3" or slightly less.

I've never seen a pink belly on a fish that wasn't female, but I have seen a female that didn't have a pink belly. The pink belly can be very faint or non existant. It intensifies as she is preparing to spawn. In the pet store, its goign to be REALLY hard since the fish will most likely be stressed out and washed out as a result.

There are a bunch of other ways that will hint at sex, and if you can put together two outta three there is a good chance you are right.

The blue spangles in the black spot is one. Obviously the pink belly is another. If they are standard fin rams, the females' dorsal will not pass the end of her body/beginning of her cadual fin. On males, the end of the dorsal will go past the start of the cadual. If you have long fins- forget it.

 

[Anubias Design]

pic

You can clearly see the difference in the black mid-body spot on the attached pic. The male (upper fish) has blue spangles in the black. The female (lower fish) does not. This is a REAL pair of German blue rams. These fish were actually bred in Germany! In my experience, and I've had a lot with this species, having bred them and imported thousands of both wild and tankraised fish, this is the only truly reliable way to sex them.
Mark

 

[Lab_Rat]

You can clearly see the difference in the black mid-body spot on the attached pic. The male (upper fish) has blue spangles in the black. The female (lower fish) does not. This is a REAL pair of German blue rams. These fish were actually bred in Germany! In my experience, and I've had a lot with this species, having bred them and imported thousands of both wild and tankraised fish, this is the only truly reliable way to sex them.
Mark

Here's an old pic of the pair I used to have (bred regularly, eggs were fertilized because I'd get wigglers but never tried to raise any so I know it was a male and female pair). As you can see, the female (on the left) has more blue spangles in the black spot than the male does. I doubt this is a fake pair of GBR, but they were likely Asian bred, mass produced, and hormoned up. I don't see how blue spangles would trump venting in terms of reliability with sexing these fish.

 

[Turbosaurus]

I will say the whole "spots on the spots" ID has been one of the more difficult to do...I've never been successful at it. None of mine are that different-
but I also wanted to say I learned it the way lab rat describes:
females will tend to have few blue spangles along their flanks, but many blue spangles inside the black spot.
Males will tend to have many spangles along their flanks, but few or none inside the spot.

My friend Johnny has some excellent photos- let me see if he's got them posted here and I'll link to them if I can find them.

Again, I've never had success with this method. I have five of them. Two males and three females. None have lots of spangles inside the dot, and none of them have spots that are completely spangle free. It didn't work for me.

 

[Turbosaurus]

Here, he just took some beautiful pictures here:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216671

If you scroll down to his blue ram (I know the fish is male) you can see the blue spangles all over him, but NONE on his black spot....

To make it more confusing, I have 4 offspring- from this specific male- and only have two sexed for sure, and none of it was by the black spot spangle method. If I had to go by that, Id still be in the dark.

I have to say:

In lab rats photo, they look like they both have almost equal numbers of spangles in their spots...

Obviously the baloon shaped fish in Mark's photo has ZERO spangles in HER spot and plenty all around it- the pink belly and Mark's ID leave no doubt she's female

In Jay's photo (in the link) his fish obviously Also has ZERO spangles in HIS spot but plenty all around it and we can be 100% certain of that ID because I have his offspring...

So I guess I've either confused myself into incoherence or we've just debunked this method of ID.

 

[Dangerdoll]

hahaha..... and you've been successful at showing DD how nearly impossible it can be to figure out if they are male or female.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Here, he just took some beautiful pictures here:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216671

If you scroll down to his blue ram (I know the fish is male) you can see the blue spangles all over him, but NONE on his black spot....

To make it more confusing, I have 4 offspring- from this specific male- and only have two sexed for sure, and none of it was by the black spot spangle method. If I had to go by that, Id still be in the dark.

I have to say:

In lab rats photo, they look like they both have almost equal numbers of spangles in their spots...

Obviously the baloon shaped fish in Mark's photo has ZERO spangles in HER spot and plenty all around it- the pink belly and Mark's ID leave no doubt she's female

In Jay's photo (in the link) his fish obviously Also has ZERO spangles in HIS spot but plenty all around it and we can be 100% certain of that ID because I have his offspring...

So I guess I've either confused myself into incoherence or we've just debunked this method of ID.

Not confusing...to me, that method of ID is debunked. I still say venting is pretty foolproof.

 

[wobbz]

I'm having some issues sexing my new rams as well. They're only a little bit bigger than an inch however, one is probably even 1". Anyone know when the pink spot will start to pop out?

 

[Anubias Design]

Of course venting the fish is an accurate way to sex any cichlid but it's also not a method I'd recommend to Joe Hobbyist or especially to Joe Beginninghobbyist. Most people don't know how to handle them correctly, let alone know what to look for, and the potential to damage the fish is high. The reason we suggest sexing the fish through markings is so that beginner to average hobbyists can do it without stressing the fish. Looking for spangles in the mid-body spot works on wild fish and on true German-bred fish and these are the only ones I get. I won't order the overstressed, overhormoned, gill fluke-laden fish that come out of commercial breeders in Asia. The quality and survival rate on those is just not as good. It's entirely possible that the hormones and color foods they are fed will affect their color pattern and make the mid-body spot an inaccurate means of sexing.

BTW, the pic I posted previously was taken about 48 hrs after that pair came in from Germany and about 24 hrs before they spawned.
Mark

 

[JAY973]

In my experience I haven't found a fool proof way of sexing GBRs, although venting maybe it. All females I ever had showed some variation of a pink belly more noticeable at times than others. Although I know what to look for, the signs aren't easily visible until the GBR matures. GBRs from different parts of the world claim different characteristics while getting them from a breeder. Getting them from LFS is a crap shoot.

Female Balloon

Male long fin on top

I know I didn't get you any closer to sexing your GBRs, but my recommendation would be patience. opcorn: As you observe your GBRs with time you'll figure out how to distinguish your own.:thm: