Are Water Changes Actually Necessary?

[Nolapete]

You absolutely don't have to do water changes; IF YOU KEEP PLASTIC FISH!

 

[chefjamesscott]

Ah...yes.

Catfish are bottom-feeders. What do you think the bottom of a pond or river looks like? Have you, like, never left the inner city or something? You imagine that all water is nice and clean, and that "runoff" is an invention of them thar crazy ivory tower geologists?

What is keeping you silent? Some kind of medication?

You appear to be the opposite of silent; rambling.

Perhaps you should read better, I did not say I would be silent but rather would speak up!!!!!

And nobody said water changes are not needed. I said they are ONLY needed when there are actually conditions requiring them. To do a change every day, or week, just because an amount of time has passed, is silly...and needless stress for the tank. Some tanks will meet the conditions necessary for a change ten times as fast as others. "Tanks should have a water change every X days" is like "everyone should get a flu shot". It's way too generic. Only people at risk for being killed by the flu, or with some other special situation, should get a flu shot, of course...you go by the circumstance, not some meaningless universal application.

Aw, OK, we'll stop stopping you.


Yes, sounds like they needed to do regular water TESTING. Then they would have known to treat whatever problem was occurring, either with a water change, or some other solution.

Suffice it to say ones foolishness and arrogance is shown and known by how they result to insult. :dance2:

Having said my peace I now leave off!

 

[kazvorpal]

If you're keeping it on a shoestring budget, and it's saltwater (you mention a deep sand bed, and that's more common in marine tanks), and it's not a nanotank, that adds up to the price of a TDS meter in a matter of weeks.

EI dosing- I use EI dosing- a method that requires weekly water changes to dilute any remaining extra ferts to avoid oding the tank- once again can't afford the extra meters or kits to know the exact ppm of every chemical needed for plant growth.

Have you any evidence that you ever need to add any at all? As someone here implied by claiming only an overplanted, underpopulated tank would have no nitrates, plants generally get plenty of fertilization from the normal conditions of a fish tank.

And most people can eyeball the need for fertilizer. The plants will pale, for example. It's pretty rare that this is necessary.

Again, it's the generic behavior that is costing you money. So much for a shoestring budget.

Tannins- I have large pieces of driftwood, that despite weeks of soaking is still leeching tannins, which soften water and lower ph, not to mention turning the water so dark I can't see the back of the tank if I slack on water changes.

That's why I generally avoid new driftwood. But they are not infinite fonts of tannins. Within a reasonable period, driftwood runs out of it. This is why people prefer to use seasoned driftwood.

And surely you can afford, at least, a pH tester. Not a reason to have routine water changes.

Other pollutants- there are any number of chemicals in the air at any given time, from air pollution, to household chemicals to the smoke from the neighbors fire pit. Any of these will end up in the water, my fishtank isn't a sealed and airtight system, so who knows what ends up in there. The solution to pollution is dilution, so I'll keep changing the water to keep god knows what from accumulating.

"God knows what pollutants" is the best reason I've seen, so far. It's nice and nebulous, impossible to test for. It's also a bit worry-wartish for me...but at least it's not quantifiable.

Personally I probably won't cease my water changes at any point, if you've found a way to keep a tank going without it, then awesome, but the same some people will always use undergravel filters, because it's always worked for them, I'll stand by my water changes.

Yeah, I use UGF as an example of one of the other universal conventional wisdoms of aquaria turned out to be nonsense, as so many of them do, but it's true that it's actually just as crazy to say "nobody should ever use a UGF" as it was to say "everyone should use a UGF" ten years ago.

 

[Fishfriend1]

Well i google Why we do water changes and came up with "to get rid of phosphates, nitrites, excess wast, and to refresh the water for trace elements(iron, salt, carbon, etc..) and to allow for safety of ur fish." Not really specific but good enough for me.

 

[kazvorpal]

had to insert some into your post as the museum tank is a clear example of how stuff does indeed build up to lethality

Yes, you demonstrated that ammonia CAN build up.

But not that it DOES build up.

Anyone with any real knowledge of aquaria can tell you that, normally, ammonia is not a problem in a tank with a stable nitrogen cycle going.

Ammonia and nitrites are easily converted to nitrates in almost any normal fish tank conditions. The idea that one must change the water, every week, in order to avoid ammonia buildup is absolutely silly.

Even most of the people defending weekly changes, here, will not support the claim that ammonia GENERICALLY builds up in tanks. The reason that many of the multi-test kits you buy skip ammonia is that it's so unusual for that to build up, if have your tank well-established and stable.

 

[snoopy65]

I suppose if you had a very large tank, say 125 gal, and had a small school of tetra, say 10 cardinals, you could get away with just having a deep sand bed and lots of plants and call it good. But most of us don't keep tanks that way. In a Severum tank, you can't have plants. Well you can but they eat them all. So no help from plants there. In a discus tank, you could try it.....oh but wait, your discus would at the very least stunt. Probably be stressed, as they like very clean water.....oh yeah, stress means disease for discus. No two ways about it. Lets look at mbuna......no plants either..they are vegetarians too. How about silver dollars....oh yeah, everything is salad to them. What about fronts? They don't eat plants....maybe........but there aren't any plants where they come from and they prefer very low lighting, not to mention they would dig up the plants from the sand bed when spawning. Let me see.....plecos....now there are some fish you can keep without cleaning up after them........not, they are poop machines.

 

[kazvorpal]

Well i google Why we do water changes and came up with "to get rid of phosphates, nitrites, excess wast, and to refresh the water for trace elements(iron, salt, carbon, etc..) and to allow for safety of ur fish." Not really specific but good enough for me.

None of that is a reason for changes at a set interval.

You can test for most of those things with a cheap kit. There's a good chance your tap water does not contain the trace elements you mention. You don't need to refresh salt, by the way, and you probably already use a carbon filter.

 

[kazvorpal]

I suppose if you had a very large tank, say 125 gal, and had a small school of tetra, say 10 cardinals, you could get away with just having a deep sand bed and lots of plants and call it good. But most of us don't keep tanks that way. In a Severum tank, you can't have plants. Well you can but they eat them all. So no help from plants there.

A deep sand bed, alone, is more than enough nitrate disposal for most situations. In fact, with saltwater there is some concern that the nitrates will end up TOO low for certain corals.

And, anyway, nitrates are the cheapest, easiest thing to test for. No need for a set interval.

In a discus tank, you could try it.....oh but wait, your discus would at the very least stunt. Probably be stressed, as they like very clean water.....oh yeah, stress means disease for discus. No two ways about it.

Yes, discus are crazy-delicate, like rams, seahorses, a lot of hard coral, et cetera.

Lets look at mbuna......no plants either..they are vegetarians too.

I kept plants with my africans for a while, the only problem was when my kid's pacu got too big and ate everything in the tank except the fish.

 

[kazvorpal]

Suffice it to say ones foolishness and arrogance is shown and known by how they result to insult. :dance2:

Having said my peace I now leave off!

That was more like banter, than insult. Chef is definitely rambling...or was someone secretly deleting his posts?

And it's "said my piece", not peace.

 

[chefjamesscott]

Yes, you demonstrated that ammonia CAN build up.

But not that it DOES build up.

Anyone with any real knowledge of aquaria can tell you that, normally, ammonia is not a problem in a tank with a stable nitrogen cycle going.

Ammonia and nitrites are easily converted to nitrates in almost any normal fish tank conditions. The idea that one must change the water, every week, in order to avoid ammonia buildup is absolutely silly.

Even most of the people defending weekly changes, here, will not support the claim that ammonia GENERICALLY builds up in tanks. The reason that many of the multi-test kits you buy skip ammonia is that it's so unusual for that to build up, if have your tank well-established and stable.

So the truth of a fool being revealed in his words rings loud and clear with the above red text. How sad you wish to have cake and eat it.

Thank god for the ignore feature